HIV : “I’m Undetectable!”
“Hey, don’t worry about it, I’m undetectable.”
Ever heard that? With so much emphasis on pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP) these days, how does “undetectable” fit in, and what does it mean?
Difference between “on PrEP” and “undetectable”
There is an important difference between “on PrEP” and “undetectable”. PrEP is a medication to prevent guys who are HIV-negative from getting HIV. On the other hand, those who are undetectable are already HIV-positive. They are “undetectable” because they are taking antiretroviral medications regularly to suppress the level of virus in their blood to an undetectable level.
Similarities between being “on PrEP” and “undetectable”
There are also some similarities between being “on PrEP” and “undetectable.” For example, being on PrEP and being undetectable are both excellent HIV prevention strategies.
Those who are on PrEP have a low likelihood of acquiring HIV from an infected partner, whereas those who are undetectable have a low likelihood of transmitting HIV to a non-infected partner.
Also, it is important to remember that being “on PrEP” or “undetectable” do not provide protection against other STIs like syphilis, which is on the rise in American men. So, even if your partner is on PrEP or undetectable, it is still a good idea to use condoms to prevent other infections.
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THANK YOU for clarifying the difference between these two terms. Most helpful for people to know. Knowledge is power!
I really don’t understand the point of constantly pushing the HIV Undetectable agenda.. HIV is HIV, I don’t care if it’s invisible, I’m NOT sleeping with you. PERIOD!
Mikey Pop : I know but if your HIV is full blown it is very dangerous!!! So yes we will promote what u call the “Undetectable agenda”
Sleeping with someone who takes care of themselves and is undetectable is safer than sleeping with someone that had a test last month and was negative. Educate yourself.
It is not all about you Mikey. People who become and remain undetectable become much more healthy and over the long term can enjoy a better quality of life. They acquire fewer illlnesses because the overall immunity is better. Unfortunately many dont understand this, so being undetectable will be part of the conversation for many year to come.
Mikey – Here’s the problem with your strategy to stay HIV free. Guys who are Undetectable basically CAN NOT transmit the virus.
So don’t you wonder how it’s being spread?
HIV is primarily spread by guys who DO NOT YET KNOW that they have it!
In other words… aaaaalllllllll the guys who you WOULD sleep with because they still think they’re HIV Negative. These guys have an EXTREMELY high probability of transmitting the virus.
Look at it this way. There are basically three types of guys:
A: Guys who have NO HIV in their blood (guys who are ACTUALLY Negative)
B: Guys who have a SHIT TON of HIV in their blood, but don’t know it yet, and so they STILL identify as “HIV Negative” (and therefore pass your screening process)
C: Guys who know EXACTLY how much HIV is in their blood, are on meds, and undetectale (this is true for virtually ALL guys with HIV unless they’ve SUPER recently been diagnosed and haven’t started meds and believe me — they’re not really feeling like hooking up on A4A with so much else on their minds at the moment). It would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE for these guys to give you HIV unless perhaps you’re into DIY blood transfusions in the comfort of your own home.
Guy A has a ZERO percent chance of infecting you.
Guy B has a totally UNKNOWN chance of infecting you — if the chances are he’s poz and doesn’t know it, then it’s a SUPER high likelihood he’ll infect you.
Guy B has like a ZERO to ONE percent chance of infecting you — and if he did — it would probably make the cover of the National Enquirer.
So let’s do some math.
If you ONLY sleep with “Negative guys” your chance is roughly somewhere around 50% of getting infected.
If you INCLUDE Poz Undetectable guys in your sexual partners, you actually REDUCE that risk to 33%.
But to be perfectly honest, the tone of your message above tells me that you’re not actually looking to be educated on this topic. And I get that. This can be scary stuff.
But hopefully OTHER people want to actually be educated so that THEY have the resources THEY need to stay safe.
And in the mean time, if you could do us all a favor? Can you cut it out with all the “Undetectable agenda” crap? Can you hear how ANGRY and HURTFUL your comment is? This isn’t an AGENDA. This is EDUCATION. The only way you can’t see how those two things are different is LITERALLY by being Jenny McCarthy. (Not figuratively… LITERALLY!)
Your ignorant comments are not only hurtful to those already living with the stigma of HIV, but whether you realize it or not, you are TEACHING others in our community that THIS is how to be cautious. That THIS is how to look after your health.
You are (again… literally!) mis-leading other people on how to stay safe, and contributing to a RISE in new infections.
But it doesn’t sound like you’re looking to be inconvenienced, so you’ll probably shrug that off your conscience as well.
Hugs!
exactly!
totally agree with you mikey, i won’t either, why take that chance at all, if there is any understanding of any HIV at all, GOOD-BYE to ya, sorry,
I guess people will stop promoting the “undetectable agenda” when you stop promoting the “gay agenda”…..
Sounds familiar?
I am sorry that everyone is tag teaming you on this issue, Mikey. I agree with you. I would never sleep with a man I knew to be positive, but then I would never in a million years have unprotected sex with ANYONE. As far as I am concerned a man who does not use condoms is playing Russian roulette with his health and not thinking rationally.
Josh, in big cities like NYC and LA, my doctor told me that there might be up to 40-50% men HIV positive, more than half dont even know they have it. So if you think you never slept with a poz guy…. you’re wrong.
It’s ok. I wouldn’t sleep with anyone w/o a condom either. The new thing now-a-days is to say that, “IM on PreP” as if that will help. That’s a DOUBLE NO!!
How can anyone be upset about me not wanting to sleep with someone that’s HIV+? That’s freaking crazy…
Some people like to get educated and then make informed decisions rather than just blanket discriminating against anyone with HIV because they chose not to get educated.
People are upset that you just talk about HIV+ guys like Trump talks about muslims and mexicans. And using that term Undetectable agenda, the only agenda is to educate so that the number of HIV infections decreases. Not everyone wants to just avoid HIV+ men and only use condoms. Those are two strategies that work for you but not for everyone else and you should at least be supportive of that agenda since it is better than doing nothing.
gay people treat HIV+ people like animals, no wonder people lie about their status! I get blocked simply because I have open their profile just to check them out, I didn’t even contact them, these people are pigs!
I’m negative and I agree. I’ve dated HIV+ men… some of the loveliest men I know!
I’m neg also and dated a couple poz guys…..sometimes, I’m ashamed to be a part of the gay community because of all the pretentiousness…..
I agree Chris!
It’s comments like this that give people like me hope that I’ll find someone – negative or undetectable – we are still people.
Chris, some of the rudest, pompous and arrogant men on this planet are gay men. Too bad “Human Relations 101” isn’t mandatory on Gay Pride Weekends
Jon,
I am HIV negative and currently in a committed relationship with a partner who is POZ- undetectable … Most guys who are NEG are ignorant on the issue. It’s a proven fact that I’m more likely to contract HIV from a random hook-up with a guy that doesn’t know his status than it is to contract the virus from my partner. Not all NEG guys are animals – but I completely know where you’re coming from. I’ve had friends stop talking to me because my partner (future husband) is POZ-undetectable. FKN IDIOTS!!!
Or like viruses! I have HIV, that doesn’t mean I am HIV. I’ve even had folks on prep reject me for being POZ. Its atrocious.
i get the same treatment my friend. It’s not you, it’s THEY ignorant asse..
all i can say is am lucky to be able to be on the prep (neg).. You comment about PrEP” and “undetectable” is use wrong a lot! An i think it wrong for people to give the wrong info about the difference… So it good to see that site like that this give are giving the right info about it! I went two of testing for hiv and std before i start taking the pill..
Jon, a lot on undetectable still wants to fuck without a condoms. They probably get blocked because they PnP, want to be passed around and take multiple loads. Check it for yourself on here.
A lot of HIV negative people who are on prep and who are not also still want to fuck without condoms, they also PNP, they also want to be passed around and take multiple loads. Besides generalizing about undetectable folks I’m not sure what you are saying that can’t also be said about HIV-negative people.
Brothers, please be aware that “undetectable” in SERUM does NOT necessarily mean UNDETECTABLE IN SEMEN. It doesn’t even mean there are no viral particles–just that the number is below the level of detection for that test on that sample. Several studies have documented presence of HIV in semen of men who were undetectable in blood. Sometimes the first ejaculate that day was negative, with a second sample testing positive for viral RNA. Whether these detected viral particles were capable of causing infection was not assessed, as far as I know.
And “low probability” of transmitting infection is NOT the same as “NO probability”. The conditions of a controlled trial may bear very little similarity to your actual circumstances.
Bottom line: take every reasonable precaution you can. PrEP is expensive, and not every man can take it. There is no substitute for reducing your number of partners and use of a condom. Condoms protect tops as well as bottoms. Even if neither man has an STI, anal sex without a condom carries the risk of the top getting a nasty urinary tract infection from colonic bacteria. Ninety days of ciprofloxacin, a ruptured Achilles tendon, blood clot to the lungs…who wants to die coughing up blood and suffocating from a blood clot in the lungs, just because of topping a man bare?
And for any man who feels rejected because of his HIV status: I am sorry. But this is not always a rational decision. It is hard to overcome decades of justifiable fear. It wasn’t all that long ago that this virus killed a lot of men & women. Now, HIV infection means that a man can live a reasonably normal and full life span–assuming he can afford the medications, that he doesn’t develop intolerable side effects or resistance to antiretrovirals. That’s a LOT of “IFs”. Who we have sex with is a deeply personal decision. If a man feels that he won’t be comfortable being intimate with someone for whatever reason, that is his reality. Sure, a man who never misses a dose of his meds and who just got his quarterly test results back yesterday (<200/"undetectable") is probably a better risk (in terms of HIV transmission) than a man who was tested a year ago and SAYS he's antibody negative. That's a rational argument to an emotional response. I can't speak for any other man, but my penis tends to respond to emotions far more often than it does to reason (and I think it always has)–much to my chagrine! That man's decision to not pursue a relationship–or hookup–with a Poz/U man is his choice, for reasons known to him. It isn't always due to hate, or irrational fear. And it may not be amenable to "reason"–because LOW probability is not the same as NO probability. And no documented cases of transmission in clinical trials does not mean that transmission cannot occur outside of the clinical trial conditions. Every man has a different definition of acceptable risk. Maybe he has sweated it out with a partner who insisted he was Poz/U, but who stopped taking his meds for financial reasons, or because of another problem. Or maybe the block isn't about HIV status at all, but some other perception based on the online profile or text interaction. I have to accept his choice, just as if he said, "…sorry, nobody over 30…", and move on. He's made his choice–happy hunting. I'll make mine.
As for me–Wrap It Before You Tap It! No exceptions.
Very well said! You hit all of the right points with this issue. As a negative male who feels the same way, but who’s had interactions with friends and colleagues on the other ends of the spectrum, I appreciate you not being a jerk about your opinion & statements. I believe remembering the humanity in others had always been the first step to truly connecting to and understanding others, regardless of your stance. Take care, Onixstar
I really like your response.
Doc, you might also have mentioned that PREP is not 100 percent effective in protecting a negative person from getting HIV. It has been shown to cut down the risk, perhaps significantly. As a poz guy, I’m not interested in negative sex partners who are uncomfortable with my status. Everyone has a different comfort level with HIV, even 35 years into the pandemic. Only have a problem that some men don’t bother to educate themselves on the risks and any new developments. Glad you added to the education about the subject. It’s sorely needed.
Love the response and worded beautifully. Makes me want to move to the South…lol
Wow. “Even if neither man has an STI, anal sex without a condom carries the risk of the top getting a nasty urinary tract infection from colonic bacteria. Ninety days of ciprofloxacin, a ruptured Achilles tendon, blood clot to the lungs…who wants to die coughing up blood and suffocating from a blood clot in the lungs, just because of topping a man bare?”
I confess to topping bare about 99% of 100s of encounters over 22 years.. I’ve not had colonic bacteria infection but have had blood clot in lung. Had a ruptured quadricep tendon about a year after getting syphillis twice from my first partner. Not sure if syphillis cure injections contributed to ruptue
We as humans can be so stupid.
Thank you for your great message and clarity. You may add to your note that men and/or woman should ask the Undetectable person, “How long they have been undetectable.” You can be undetectable for a month or years.
It does make a difference in the probability of you spreading and or receiving HIV. No sexual cases between an HIV+ long term undetectable (2+ years) and an HIV- man have been found. I have been undetectable for almost 14 years.
Very well stated.
Would love to get in touch with you!
Sorry, I dont mean to be thick, but with,…
“..getting a nasty urinary tract infection from colonic bacteria. …., a ruptured Achilles tendon, blood clot to the lungs….
what is the connection?
The cipro antibiotics is very strong, has a proven history of causing tendon eruptions/failures, was given for a nasty urinary tract infection. What do you not understand. Cipro is used to treat the most dangerous infections due to its strength but also due to the risk of severe side effects. Tendon ruptures are common with this drug. So is a nasty UTIs and other related risks worth it? I think the top poster says a resounding NO.
Not thick at all… that part of the comment sounded as though topping bare could directly lead to blood clots to the lung.
This is what i got from his comment:
Ciprofloxacin is used to treat UTIs. If you top without a condom, you could get a UTI, for which Cipro may be prescribed. So the “Achilles tendon rupture”, and “blood clot to the lungs” were supposed to be side effects (more like ripple effects) of long term treatment with Cipro. But that is RARE! Also, 3 months on Cipro for a UTI is not the norm (I’m a doc!)
The broader case is there are other infections aside HIV to think about. My personal decision has always been to NEVER have gay sex without a condom. I’ve only topped; never without a condom…… I’ll never do it!
I’ve been on PrEP for 2 years & it has made me pickier than ever. A lot of guys on it feel like that they do anything & be safe. I fucked a guy a couple weeks ago & a week later he messaged me that he picked up clam during his visit & I should get checked. This guy got fucked by 8 guys in 3 days. He thought he might have gotten it from one of the guys that fucked him the day after we played. I was fine but just because you’re on PrEP doesn’t reduce your chance of getting anything else.
As for it being expensive do some homework & you can get it for your copay prescription price or free. The manfacurer gives a $1000 a month coupon Your insurance or local LGBTQ org can help you figure something out.
Nice of you to write this post – I hope many out there learn something from it. Not to sound too full of myself, but I’m well aware of both matters you discuss. But as an offshoot to this convo, I’d like to share my personal sexual practices re: PreP and undect. In short, I won’t approach or even talk to guys on a4a and other sites who put either on their profiles. As ‘doc in the south’ pointed out, undetectable guys still could pass on the HIV virus with unprotected sex. As for guys on PreP, that’s all good and well for them and they certainly add an additional level of protection by taking it. But it’s not been proven to be a 100% fool-proof vaccine, yet some I’ve encountered in a4a chats seem to believe “I’m covered” and are open to bare-backing. As a result, I’ve made it my personal ‘rule’ not to go near anyone who’s undetectable or on PreP.
MattK : I understand your point, but you might be missing on finding the love of your life or a good buddy.
Thanks Dave and you’re absolutely right. I’m a closeted married guy and I basically go ‘hunting’ on these sites for some safe m4m action on the side, so I’m not seeking a love of my life.
smh
Respectfully, when you state that you wont go near anyone who’s Undect or on PreP, you could be at higher risk going that route. Your chances of ending up with someone who lies and says they’re Neg or doesn’t know they’re Poz and is not receiving treatment for their high viral load are wide open. A Prep guy or an Undect guy usually get tested regularly and know their numbers. With either of them, using a condom in addition to meds should cover it. Thanks for your post.
Exactly!
Totally agree with you Johnnie.
Gentlemen! I am in AWE of the candid, informed, mutually-respectful, and informed discourse this blog entry has triggered. Y’all make me proud!
Doc in the South
(Not to be confused w “The King in the North”!)
“undetectable guys still could pass on the HIV virus with unprotected sex.”
Operative word is COULD….yet there is no evidence it HAS.
Its statements like this that continue the prejudice….I guess men should not have sex, because the condom COULD break. The test was too soon and you COULD have HIV. the PrEP isn’t 100% effective so you COULD get infected.
That is one of the most intelligent responses I’ve read tonight. The operative word could, but there is no evidence it has. In fact, current evidence shows that an undetectable person has , as some have put it, a zero chance of passing on the virus. And, I can speak from experience. But, the fact is, we can never get past this pandemic if our attitudes don’t change. And, I say this towards those who live in the negative and positive world. Fear is never the answer. But, fear will keep this pandemic in full swing. Love and peace. HB.
One thing I think it’s 100% safe to say here is that ALL of us come from different backgrounds and current living situations, right? With that said, all of us are giving our own personal perspectives – namely, what’s right for ME, and trying to share that with others who read these notes. My perspective is probably not as prominent as others who take the time to write these things in that I’ve been happly married to my wife for nearly 30 years and for lack of a better way to say this, I get my rocks off w/ guys when I need to – and always totally on the D.L. I obviously not only have extreme paranoia about bringing any STDs home with me, but I also view it as there are tons of us out there, available, willing to play with one another. So my feeling is this – and I fully realize it’s extremely narrow minded: If I sense someone may be a dangerous player, may carry some form of an STD, may just have one tiny little thing that sends a negative vibe my way, I simply move on to the next one. Plain & simple. Am I wrong to assume anyone who’s “undetectable” could infect me? Of course. Am I wrong to assume that just because someone’s on PreP they take safe sex loosely? Of course. Do I assume that just because someone says he’s neg that it’s OK to jump in bed with him and do unsafe sh*t because he’s supposedly “safe?” Of course NOT. But to me, there are always other fish in the sea…
I’ve had sex with two HIV+ men. We took precautions. One was fantastic; we were wild and kinky. The other was so dull that he couldn’t cut butter with a hacksaw. Just be responsible.
First, thank you for the helpful information. Second, I would like to respond in regards to HIV+ people being treated differently. Maybe not the place for it, but I feel the need to respond to another comment. I have no problem befriending a positive individual. However, I struggle with a positive or undetectable status (any STD for that matter) and choosing those that have them (for sex/relationship). I know that makes me horrible to some people, but that’s how I feel. People “choose” each other based on a variety of reasons all day long, (looks, lifestyle, success, health etc.). I get turned down all of the time for many reasons and I turn down people for many reasons.; it sucks for all of us, but that is human nature. I doubt all positive people are equal opportunist, so I hope those that get upset have considered what they disqualify people for as well.
The stigma around being positive is that the person was overly promiscuous and/or careless. It shows in many profiles where some state “anything goes” or the profile is nothing but a cry for careless sex with as many men they can find. So many lives affected by whores and liars. Despite the medical progress, I’m personally not able to deal with the idea of being infected. I had one guy tell me, “It’s like diabetes, you can take a pill for it”. Well, I don’t want diabetes or any other health condition that I can stay clear of. If I were to become positive, I would never assume that a negative person should be OK with a positive status. I would focus on finding other positive people for sexual encounters. In any case, I would clarify if I was looking for just friends or sex to clear the air of assumptions and to allow those that are OK with just being friends the opportunity if they are open to it.
Like stated before. It’s all about choices and accepting them.
i am a 50 yo been poz since 1998 and be undetatcable since 2001.
My questions is: the guys on PrEP after having bare sex with positive men and receiving their sperm, are they carrying the HIV virus ? Or are completely immune?
I am sorry for my ignorance but I thought to believe that they are sane carriers? Can you shine some light on this subject.
Thanks R.
The virus naturally dies in them and they cannot pass it on because they are not infected and are not making any new virus.
Been waiting for this post
Thank you for this post. I’m Hiv Positive Undetectable. Here in Buffalo, NY, the gays tend to be very extra. Whenever I try to engage in conversation, I get immediately blocked. It don’t even have to be about sex, they just figure “oh he’s positive so I don’t want to talk to him. But yet I find it funny how most guys here lie about their status in fear of being rejected and don’t care if they spread it to the next guy.
One flaw in the government’s program to get as many at risk men as possible on PreP (at least in my state), is the failure of medicare to cover this med. The manufacturer picks up the copay for my younger husband on private insurance, but not the extremely high copay my medicare advantage policy requires. I guess we’re old and aren’t supposed to have sex; and if we get sick, we’re over the hill and expendable.
I’m getting very tired of this conversation. As a gay man of 60, I watched an entire generation of gay men sacrifice themselves on the altar of “promiscuity”.
We have known for 20+ years how HIV is transmitted, and the simple and easy steps required to stop its spread. Education and sexual education campaigns have been both comprehensive, long running and targeted to ALL of GayWorld’s many communities.
If someone contracts HIV nowadays, it’s because they are drunks, druggies, willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.
Its very hard to feel any sympathy for someone who is infected with a disease that, after 20+ years of “education”, is so easily and expensively preventable. We’re certainly sympathetic when a smoker contracts lung cancer, or someone who has spent 25 years eating junk food gets colon cancer, but is this really very much of a surprise that their behavior has resulted in an entirely predictable outcome?
It’s a free country, of course. Yur free to live your Life as you see fit. I’m not required, however to pick up the check to validate your bad choices.
As to PrEP. At one level, ANYTHING that prevents HIV is – UNAMBIGUOUSLY – a good thing. On the other hand, it AGGRESSIVELY encourages a false sense of security, and it is a catalyst for the kind of rampant sexual promiscuity that led to the problem in the first place.
The rise of drug resistant syphillis and gonorrhea is no accident…the “family” of risky behaviors that defines so much of gay culture – random hookups with strangers of unknown sexual provenance, rampant alcohol and drug abusers and the WILLFUL disregard that gay men have a problem with pornography, sex with zero emotional content and the “hookup culture” – makes for a “witches brew” of insoluable problems.
Lemme get this right. PrEP requires that you ingest a toxic brew of chemicals – with unknown long term consequences – so that you can continue to have random hookups with strangers who are – more than likely – infected with HIV…AND herpes and Hepatitus, both of which are incurable.
This makes sense to you???
I was 21 years old and been on my own since age 16. yes I turned to drugs and alcohol because I was stupid. Thanks for putting it so eloquently you pompous ass.
Hitekjock3, your comments are spot on. I would add only one thing to them. HIV is and always is a FATAL disease. It can be held in check using some meds, however it is ALWAYS TRANSMISSABLE in ANY amount in any body fluid. All this tslk about PReP and u detectable IGNORES the fact that without a chemicsl med to hold the HIV GROWTH in check, it still is transmissable, and is still deadly. Your comments regarding responsibilty and personal restraint to PREVENT infection from “undetectable” levels of viral load doesn’t mean there is NONE, only that they are not within the tests thresholds. THE gay community spreads these false representations of safety that PRep and undetectable is “HEALTHY”, but they are deliberate misrepresentations about a 100 prrcent fatal disease when the chemical restraints on it fail or are not available. No amount of HIV exposure is safe or “healthy”. Only NONE is healthy.
CDC OFFICIAL DATA IS THIS:
lATEX CONDOMS PROTECTION FROM HIV IS 98% (WITHOUT BREAKAGE FACTORED IN)
PREP PROTECTION FROM HIV IS 93% (IF TAKEN DAILY)
RISK OF CONTRACTING SYPHILLIS GONNORRHEA CHLYAMIDIA HEP B WITH SUCKING DICK AND HAVING BAREBACK ANAL SEX IS THE SAME
DO YOUR OWN MATH!
HAVE A THICK SKIN!
PEOPLE WILL JUDGE YOU FOR HEIGHT, WEIGHT, DICK SIZE ETHNICITY, AGE, SKIN COLOR, FACIAL FEATURES,SOCIAL STATUS AND YOUR HIV STATUS AND WITHOUT ANY DOUBT YOU JUDGE THEM BACK!
AS LONG AS YOU ARE NOT HARMING THE OTHER PERSON PHYSICALLY OR VERBALLY JUDGING IS NATURAL AND ACCEPTABLE!,
JUDGING IS AN EVOLUTIONARY REFLEX MECHANISM! IT IS INNATE!!
EVERY JOB INTERVIEW ,EVERY AUDITION, EVERY YELP REVIEW… WE JUDGE EVERYTHING EVERY SECOND!!..SO DON’T GET MAD AT ANYONE…STAY HEALHY! THATS ALL YOU CAN DO…
Well there are now three free truvada clinics in three major cities that gives it out for free…Atlanta, Houston, and DC…but like I tell my clients fear the the person that can not tell you nor produce paperwork with a status rather the people who inform you..
Whatever…hiv came out in 1981. Fish bowls of condoms and lube, PSA stating “wrap it up”. Fast forward to 1996 and pro-tease inhibitors. Not so much a death sentence anymore but still a pain to deal with for those infected who take multiple pills per day. 2016 most take one or 2 pills max these days but bareback videos are all the rage and terms like “undetectable” and “on PrEP” now are in hookup site profiles. While I don’t think those with hiv are the boogy man I shake my head in disbelief that 25yrs into an incurable, totally preventable disease, the gay community is so fucking dense as to continue to find ways and excuses to have unsafe sex. This disease should have fallen off the fucking planet by now. Or at least in 1st world, civilized countries where you have been given all the information you need. So if you are “undetectable” or on “PrEP” and still hook up randomly to play unsafe, you are part of the problem. And don’t even think about messaging me.
Thank you “Doc in the South” for your response
BUT, even with all of the information, research, and scientific facts available we continue to see a daily increase of people (especially gay men) becoming infected. Realistically the stats for new infection should be lower than they are currently because we are the largest group in the US who are most educated about the treatment and prevention. Remember when people died while fighting for the funding for research, treatment and medication? Why are so many young gay men ignoring the history and facts of this disease? It’s time to start using your “big head” more.
Your information is dated. No one on HAART with a long-term undetectable status has ever passed along the HIV virus. It has never happened. Unless and until it does, guys who are HIV positive and undetectable are THE ONLY GUYS ALMOST GUARANTEED NOT TO TRANSMIT THE HIV VIRUS.
Stop spreading misinformation.
http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study/page/2832748/
Thank you Jim!
You know what? These seniors have a lot to say about the virus based on the times when they were at their prime and scared out of their wits because the virus was so unstoppable in their time. But I don’t see the same responses for people who catch herpes or Syphillis. We’ve known about those for much much longer and syphillis used to be a death disease, now it’s curable.. So why is that still in circulation? Straight people are just as promiscuous as gays, if not more. All they do is take birth control pills and then go fucking crazy. Look at all the kids in the foster/adoption/abortion cycles…
They have to understand that the stigma and poor educational circulation about sexual diseases mitigates our strategies for prevention. Also everyone is not 60 years old with 40+ years of sexual knowledge and experience! These days kids start out having sex as soon as they can get an erection almost, and the vast majority of people under the age of 25 have very little practical sexual knowledge, especially in the US where sex is in your face all day everyday from the age of 5, but it’s all but forbidden to talk about sex.
The only people spreading HIV is those who HAVE IT. No one who DOESN’T have it can transmit it, EVER. The only misinformation is that spread by people who refuse to acknowledge that the ONLY safe person is the one who has ZERO in their blood at all. Prep and meds to hold an infected person at “undetectable” are the ones that misrepresent “safety” concerning a fully preventable fatal virus and its transmission. Thats a FACT. No NON carrier has ever given HIV to another person. Only a carrier infected person can transmit HIV.
I never would have know how many guys out there are hiv+ if it wasn’t for Adam4Adam having that as a status option. Thanks Adam!
Will, pleasure! We think that knowing your partner’s status helps to make clear decisions for yourself.
As a 31 years positive, undetectable 15 years,57 yo guy I welcome the clarification of status types. It gets to be a pain in the ass(not a good one) explaining why and because to prospective partners. Younger guys ignore honest poz guys and get infected by the players tapping them deep in the ass. When you wont plow them deep with your 9″ its onto the next barebacking mule hung top.
thank you for the clarification to those not in the know. I myself, up until my diagnosis last summer, could not understand the concept of undetectable and thought it was a smoke screen. First hand knowledge has given me the correct information and clarity.
Remember gents. NOT EVERYONE either knows or is honest about their status. Always use your brain. Live life, but live it wisely 🙂
I hear and understand everyone’s comments. Maybe someone can help me figure something out! Here goes, my now ex-boyfriend was diagnosed as HIV positive about 5 years ago. However, I am still testing negative to this day, even though every time we had sex, he barebacked me and came inside of me. Each time, we waited a few months, and I would get tested again, each time I came back negative, even through he was positive, and came inside me, I don’t know why or how my test was always negative. Any information would be welcomed and respected! Thank you
Damien, simply because the virus was not “strong enough” to be transmitted to you. But don’t try to “catch it”, protect yourself man and use PrEP if you want to bb with a bf
Most likely because undetectable people who are in good physical health and take their meds regularly as well as steer clear of other STD’s have so far in all research and studies have been shown to not transmit the virus.
Damien, I don’t have an answer for you, but a question: Might I ask why you continued to let him fuck you and cum inside you BB? Were you looking to ‘join’ him in the HIV positive world or something? Why on earth? Sorry, but I just had to ask.
But let’s be clear, the same med used for PreP and keeping men undetectable are the same drug. Period.Undetectable dudes, like myself, have a 1 -2 % chance of passing the virus and that is fact. We are not animals or dirty, we are the same as everyone else. Whilst debating don’t forget that Poz Men are still Men.
Thank you for the straightforward response, FOX. Remember gentleman, poz or not, we are all gay brothers and need to stand up for each other when much of the world stands against us.
exactly!
Thanks for the information, I know of someone on here who’s profile said he was “undetectable” and like a month later, it said “on PreP” and “negative”.
A shame that people lie about being poz…..I’m neg and have no problem with chatting or being friends with someone who is poz.
Chris, might be because of comments like ” I don’t want to go close to poz guys” they want to protect themselves and date too I guess.
Hey Guys, Being UNDETECTABLE means that you still have the HIV VIRUS in your body, it is just that it is so miniscule that it is UNDETECTABLE…..Try not to be foolish and protect yourselves from contacting not only THE HIV/AIDS VIRUS, but all of the other SEXUALLY TRANSMITTED DISEASES you could possibly contact due to having UNPROTECTED SEX WITH PARTNERS!
I’m sure I’m biased as a HIV+ man on meds and undetectable but I find it amazing that HIV- men feel more comfortable having sex with another man who says he is negative because of the results from on his last test, but they don’t question when that last test was. Or how many men has he slept with since that test? I would guess the chances of contracting HIV would be less from sleeping with the guy on prep or the guy who is undetectable HIV positive and on meds than having sex with a HIV negative guy who hasn’t been tested since his last sexual encounter…
I totally agree with you SF!
Guys are stupid by nature, then they come here and read dated lies about HIV transmission among undetectable men and the bigotry and ignorance continues unabated.
Remember that with most HIV tests the resuits tell you what happened 3 months ago. By the time you are having sex with a negative partner MANY things n ay have happened changing his status.
Hi guys just asking if I’m poz undetectable can’t give for neg guys?
And also I’m looking for a poz undetectable boyfriend or more I’m gay bottom
I see lies in here. Per Gilead’s OWN DATA….Truvad PReP is only 52% more effective in preventing the transmission of the HIV-1 virus into the colon (and thence into the bloodstream) as NO PROTECTION AT ALL. You have a lot better chance with a rubber alone, and your liver and kidneys won’t rot in 15 years. WAKE UP, DUMMIES!
Hello guys,
I am a Bisexual and as recently as yesterday on a hookup site. I was contacted by a guy my age (58) saying hey sexy (stop laughing) how about BB with that piece of meat. “Don/’t worry, I am on PreP”. I am not ignorant and checked it out. I know that my horniness as well as my cock shouldn’t dictate going bare with him. I have done BB a few times when yoounger and have been tested Neg. I guess I am asking your opinions on why I should even try BB with him. I have a life ahead with 2 great kids. Thank You in advance.
Rudy, it is VERY likely that the guy who contacted you was just pulling your leg. Let’s face it. There are a lot of raw cocks out there – and on Adam4Adam most of them say “safe sex only” in their profiles- that this guy – provided he is decent looking – surely can find someone to flood him with warm man milk without having to convince them with that “Don’t worry, I am on PreP”.
I myself knew an attractive, muscular, sexy, nice, and sweet ‘Rudy’ back in the days at the martial arts club and we did flirt platonically with one another. Rudy clearly showed that he was interested in me. Since he seemed to be relationship material to me, I did some research and obtained detailed information about him from a colleague at my work place (for instance that Rudy’s brother had an engineering degree just like my colleague and I but that Rudy himself had dropped out of college, etc.). I still considered Rudy relationship material though.
However, I discovered along the way that Rudy was not just bisexual but had a LOT of women, and as a result I could NEVER, EVER allow myself to go beyond the flirting stage with him. Did I fantasize about having sex with him, especially passionate and tender raw sex where he would flood me deeply with his precious and warm man milk while we were locked in a deep wet kiss? Of course I did and I still do occasionally but that is just DAYDREAMS. After I left the martial arts clubs, we went our separate ways and the UNIVERSES did NOT stop living. Indeed, I had plenty of cocks afterwards, either with condoms or raw and I NEVER had to convince ANYONE to do it raw.
Enjoy yourself Rudy.
I’m HIV NEG, and every guy i meet is HIV+. Honestly, it pisses me off! I realize I need therapy to help me move past the trauma of witnessing so many men die of AIDS in the early 90s. But the way HIV+ gay men can be so dismissive and disrespectful to people who are HIV Neg, surprises me. I’m expecting to have compassion for guys who have HIV but there is no compassion for men who don’t have it, don’t want it, and are afraid to be intimate with someone infected with it. I don’t want it in my relationship at all; i don’t want to acknowledge its existence. I don’t want to be reminded every time i roll on a condom it’s because i don’t know this guy or because I’m dating someone who has it. Whether you’re HIV+ and undetectable or HIV + and delectable, there needs to be an understanding that some people just don’t want anything to do with it. Additionally, there are so many guys who have it, that not being able to find a hook up or life partner should no longer be a problem. Lastly, a lot of HIV+ guys STILL refuse to engage in safe sex. I have shown up at a guy’s place only to leave because i pulled out a rubber. The issue i have with HIV+ men isn’t the fact they are positive, it’s their behavior and disregard for humanity.
I worry a lot about the misinformation being provided here on neg v. undetectable men and sex. The biggest studies on sero-discordant men indicate no transmissions between the men. These are not “clinical trials” in the sense that these are real life couples who report on sex practices and testing. Even in cases where they thought there might be transmission, analysis of the HIV virus found it wasn’t from the undetectable partner. In the end, it’s all about the risk with which one is willing to engage. If you fear a car accident so much that you don’t drive a car, then that would be the parallel to sex with a men is known to be undetectable. By the way, I have been in a partnership with an undetectable man for nine years, have frequent sex, and I am negative. Biology and medicine is not about one’s morality; it’s about facts.
Look here. I’ve read all the posts and nit one of you have passed along a VERY important statistic – even the doc from the the south. Undetectable means you are 96% likely NOT to infect your partner. Nearly the same statistic as Prep or using condoms. So if we are going to spread a message to our own community let’s put all the facts out there.
Good Lord, thank you
On PrEP, undetectable, negative, unsure…it doesn’t matter. This topic has been discussed ad nauseum. I feel too many men simply don’t care about what they do to others. The process of eradicating HIV starting with behavioral changes in the gay community…forget about it. And all the arguments regarding rejection based on your preferences and HIV status, get over it. Many men engaging in casual sexual encounters, regardless of HIV and sexual preference, have neither interest in your health nor becoming your friend. They just want sex at any cost and toss you aside like a piece of trash when they are done with you. Make your choice; accept the consequences your decision.
Ahhh the mystery of PreP since it became common: Seeing guys on their profiles without HIV Status or HIV Positive or HIV Undetectable magically changing into “HIV Negative on PreP” I mean, don’t they think we favorite them or “save them as friends” specially when they’ve been using the same pics for more than 5 years?
I appreciate all comments and facts verses myth. I did get a UTI about 3 years ago from unprotected anal sex. The infection went into my bladder and kidneys. I was on antibiotics for weeks along with the strongest narcotics for the pain. The pain would bring me to my knees it was so excruciating. I had never experienced pain like that ever. I do use condoms 90% of the time now but make sure I wash my dick and urinate immediately after sex . I was told urine is a natural antiseptic and will help prevent getting a UTI.
Thank you for the clarification, plain & simple. Knowledge is power & we all need to become educated.
Thank you. I appreciate this. I actually know someone who is undetectable but I have been kinda scared to mess around with him. Now that I have read this… I might just do it! Lol god I miss his D!!!
Goooooood josiab!! xoxoxox Have fun!
Thank you for your informative compassionate post. I personally don’t even want to catch a cold from someone who’s company I dont thoroughly enjoy not only for sex but someone who I dont respect and admire as a potential good friend and a great human being. I suppose that makes me cruel and heartless to everyonev who has a flue and a monster to a anyone with an even more serious infectious disease. I lost most of my best friends and an ex lover in the early days of aids. I too was deeply scarred and affected by this. This was a holocaust for many of my generation and for years I lived in terror scared to death every time I had a sore throat. I resent the fact that there is very little compassion for people like me who just because I am extremely cautious about staying healthy, hiv neg and don’t feel comfortable having promiscuos sex with random infected individuals, that this somehow makes me insensitive, unreasonable and uncaring to the plight of my gay brothers and sisters. Believe it or not there is just as much stigma for those who are upfront about how they feel about their HIV neg status as there is for those who are honest about being poz.
Let’s be a bit more clear on type of sex as well. The focus has remained on anal bareback, which is far more risky for the bottom then the top, oral sex is a tiny bit more risky for the bottom as well be truly not a spreader of HIV. I have been POZ since 1983, a very very long time, NONE of my partners have contracted HIV, I don’t top, not with my cock, but both my longtime partners, and all fwb on the side have refused to wear a condom when they top me. None of them expect me to wear a condom when they suck me off, I won’t cum in your mouth, mutual masterbation, oral sex, dildos, all can be played with safely …. It is called a point if exit … The virus must exit one body… And a point of entry… Enter the next body… My safe sex methods have allowed me plenty of fantastic sex, plenty of partners, all without infecting anyone… Undetectable is a giant benefit… Undetectable for over a decade now:-) Pos for well over thirty years… It baffles me to the ignorance of some people.. Recently a guy who has me blocked on your sight, works 1000 foot from where I live, I watched getting fucked bareback from a guy he didn’t even know his name feels safer blocking me and everyone in town with HIV yet runs to the local bookstore and gets fucked barrback by truckers:-( He will collapse one day from full blown aids and blame it on me I am sure… This I can just block it out mentality is very very strange … I had never even spoken a word on Adam4Adam to him when he blocked me… I was told by someone else he simply blocks everyone with a pos status:-( He feels safer that way:-( WOW.
If I go to your profile and see ON PreP….. NEXT..
Some helpful and important information to be factored in the comments here and initial entry. What I find very ironic when reading many comments on a4a is the sanctimonious attitude of some of the writers. The men visiting this site clearly like casual sex; they aren’t looking for “the one” unless naive. Most visitors here see m2m sex as recreational and fun. Accordingly it has inherent risks, as does any sexual activity. The operative question is how much risk you want to entertain, and being sufficiently informed about potential cause and effect. What makes me tired, however, is when I read entries from those suggesting that promiscuity is contemptible and deserves scorn; by definition, recreational sex represents promiscuity to a greater or lesser degree. Those who hold forth here and pretend that such behavior is beneath them are being hypocritical or are visiting this site as voyeurs; they aren’t here searching for Bible study partners. Additionally, it is important to recognize that whether you wear condoms or choose not to do so, whether you take Prep or don’t, whether you engage in protected or bareback sex with “undetectable” partners, you are entertaining risk regardess. Some is greater and others is reduced, but you are entertaining risk. Let’s be honest with ourselves about it. All recreational sex is risky: it is not deserving of contempt, it does not make a person worthy of moral contempt. Some people eat too much; some people drink too much, some people use recreational drugs. These are all choices with inherent risks, like recreational sex. So spare everyone the snide, smug, sanctimony. By viewing his site you are by definition shy of being a paragon of virtue.
Believe it or not, not everyone on Adam is looking for recreational sex. I find exactly the same men on more “relationship oriented” sites. The same faces with different profiles. I for one am no Mother Theresa or I wouldn’t be masterbtating alone as often as I do. I enjoy sex just as much as the next guy. I just enjoy it more when there is more intimacy and that doesn’t mean marriage. For me intimacy just means honesty and at least a little bit of caring for the person inside the hot body you’re fucking. Call me old fashioned if you want but I am anything but naive about what gay life is all about as a 61 year old man who still gets a natural hard on on a regular basis.
Amen … Finally some measures wisdom on here.
Only a fool would believe what a stranger tells them. I suspect most guys on PrEP are poz bottoms. And very few of the “undetectable” poz guys are actually undetectable, this is just a code word for wanting raw unprotected sex.
This entry is “raw” with distain. Perhaps it is foolish to believe what strangers tell you, but referring to people as fools is rarely persuasive. A hypothetical question for the writer: since failure to take anti-viral medications is essentially deciding to succumb to death, why wouldn’t most positive people take anti-viral medications until they were undetectable in order to survive (unless they don’t have a medical plan/can’t afford them)? And, said medications only work if faithfully taken. So why make the blanket assertion that most men who indicate that they are undetectable aren’t taking their medications and aren’t attempting to survive and be as healthy as the medications will allow? And, even if you only “play” with “negative” guys (to the best of their knowledge) who only practice “safe sex” but, for the grace of God, you still could find yourself poz. Nothing is without some risk except abstinence. Also, while perhaps not advisable, might it not be understandable that undetectable men, having encountered what they consider the worst possible outcome might have concluded that they have experienced the risk of unprotected sex and that perhaps the remaining risks are relative? That’s not necessary logical, but it might be understandable if you were attempting to be compassionate instead of judgmental. Additionally, most studies have indicated that most undetectable men seek other undetectable men as sexual partners as negative men gravitate to negative partners. There are, of course, egregious exceptions. And, in life, most people tend to be honest, though we always need to be wary of those who are not. I’d encourage you to embrace a kinder and less accusatory, judgmental, and contemptuous attitude. Positive men are, for the most part, less lucky. And, you are only currently lucky, so stop looking down on those who have been hit by lightening.
I think you’re very cynical and wrong and you have no proof to back up your judgmental pronouncements.
Robert, I agree with you 100%. Nearly every HIV positive profile says undetectable nowadays, LIES, it’s used in a very deceiving manner to fool naive guys, POZ or NEG, into having risky/unsafe sex. POZ guys should look for POZ guys, if they have any decency, period!!! If the neg guy is looking for you, then so be it, he should know the risks. What I haven’t seen in this post is anything about the HIV positive predators out there into “stealthing” look it up if you don’t know what I’m talking about but in short, it’s HIV positive guys who seek to intentionally infect negative men. Let us also not leave out the absolutely ridiculous “bugchaser”… just no words for such stupidity. I’m sorry POZ guys but negative men have the right to not want anything to do with positive guys sexually and that does not make us insensitive to your situation, it makes cautious, regardless of what you may think or foolishness you may try to project on to us to make yourselves feel better. Just FYI, it is illegal in most states for anyone with HIV to have sex with someone without telling the person their positive status first, this is classified as an assault and anyone doing so should be turned in to the police pronto, remember to keep all evidence of conversations you have had with potential sex partners. Maybe once the reality of jail sets in, POZ guys will be more upfront and honest about their status instead of finding ways to justify having sex, protected or not, with neg guys who only want sex, protected or not with other negative guys…. also watch out for the POZ guys using “I’m clean” when answering questions regarding whether or not he is disease free…. that simply means he has showered and would probably work to his favor in court somehow, get the words DISEASE FREE, that would be a bold faced lie if not true.
I don’t think anyone who is positive saying they are undetectable is “TEH LIES!”
It only takes 3-6 months on most of the post 2008 medications to become undetectable.
The reality is that prison will do nothing to reduce HIV, it will, like most stigma only increase the transmission rates intensely. It is the responsibility of both partners, not just the positive ones, to determine for themselves the health status of their partner before sexual activity. If you rely on the word of a man at face value, you will always be at risk.
So how do you ever have sex with someone? Do you make them get tested, find out they are negative, lock them in a closet for 3 months and test them again (this is about the only way to really confirm a guy is truly negative) and then have sex with them when the 2nd test is negative and lock them up again until you want to have sex with them? Just sayin…
If the guy is undetectable but we use a condom is there is still any risk?
No. Almost like you have 2 layers of protection. If you’re using a condom you’ll be fine and you can enjoy without worry. In this case even if the condom breaks, he is undetectable and your chances of contracted are next to none. Of course if you use the correct lube the condom most likely won’t break, don’t Vaseline or oil.
LEO, if you are not KEEN about having sex with an HIV+ undetectable Guy, then DO NOT! There are a lot of HIV- guys for you and a lot of HIV+ guys for this Guy out there. At the end of the day though, the UNIVERSES will still go on!
I’m on PrEP for 2 months now and I’m fulfilling a fantasy of getting fucked bareback by all kinds of men. I love it. Is there a risk, yes, but there’s a risk crossing the street. I choose to live life, not hide from it anymore.
Just go for it. If you’re on prep and the other guy undetectable it is almost impossible for you to get infected.
I am learning more about prep…how long do you have to be on it for it to be effective? can I take prep one day and then that night be protected? do I need to keep taking it? I am neg.
Im undetectable and still wrap it up! Only thing im coming home with is memories!
haha good 🙂 xox
Undetectable has wide spread use but is inaccurate and the current term is fully suppressed viral load. The high sensitive viral load quantitation test measures the number of live virus in blood serum. Depending on the clinician, a test number either under 50 or 20 is considered fully suppressed or “undetectable.” Some tests results are in the single digits but never zero since zero represents no viral load and hence no HIV. A couple of large scale test studies suggest that a full suppressed or undetectable person does not transit the virus to partners. This is anecdotal but not absolute. The ranges for such infection is close to that of being on PrEP.
HIV does “hide” in certain organs etc. making a cure extremely difficult but new therapies are researching the possibilities of “coaxing” residual HIV from these hiding places in order to eradicate them and lead to a overall cure. Also HIV mutates also making a cure difficult to achieve.
A4A can do their part by removing the undetectable status as well as the NEG+PREP from profiles.
it won’t happen, but why do you suggest such thing?
All that would do is encourage positive men to go back to using the negative status in their profile as they have been doing for years before undetectable was added. It would be a disservice to the community. The more specific information we have, the better.
I understand if a person has been traumatized by watching most of his friends die in the 1980s, or if they are simply concerned about their health. But whether you’re negative, on PRep, or poz…for God’s sake develop some manners and treat people kindly because in this life you’re eventually going to need some kindness or sympathy or help or love and if you take on this elitist mentality toward guys who are poz, you’ll experience the same thing down the road in one way or another. “…if I see poz/on PRep…NEXT” I mean seriously? What sort of animal raised you?
People are people. If you can’t even carry a convo with someone because they have hiv then you suck as a human being. Nowhere is it written that you have to sleep with them, or date them. But a simple hello is civilised and generally goes a long way. We’ve already taught ourselves and this upcoming generation how to be sloppy, irresponsible and outrageously entitled. For poz guys it’s like being isolated for being gay then having to deal with that same isolation from gay guys for being poz.
I’m not saying sleep with them. I’m not saying date them. You aren’t obligated to do those things. But I am saying take a moment from the world according to you and protect another human being’s dignity. Treat poz guys as human beings and stop being such assholes.
I’ve been on prep for 2 years now. I enjoy taking raw dicks and loads from undetectable guys without fear.
What if a guy knows he is undetectable but refers to himself as hiv negative? Men will often lie in order to get whatever they want even if it comes at the cost of someone elses life. Why are gay men so intrigued by the thought of taking “loads” of another mans semen? Its not like you can really benefit from taking “loads”. The person injecting the “loads” is probaby hiv positive and knows it. Some people are infected with hiv by someone they once love and trusted. Most people are infected by having careless unprotected “hookups”. You are risking your life with a guy that you dont even know. My hopes for the future is that gay men will become monogamous and stop giving themselves a bad name. You were giving the privilege to marry and you are still meeting every guy you can possibly meet like its normal.
Okay: people who lie about their status are immoral as well as committing an actual crime. This needs to be noted.
People who are logging on to sites like a4a are, for the most part, looking for recreational sex. Those who say that they are looking for monogamy, true love, and “the one” are clearly in the minority. They can’t ignore the surrounding ads that support this site, nor that many profiles include genital shots. You don’t photography your cock and put it on a website seeking your soul mate. Let’s not pretend. Also, let’s stop demonizing people who like casual recreational sex. It’s like demonizing people who drink or who eat fast food, or who like NASCAR, or who like horror films. It might not be your taste or style, you might view it as unwise and even stupid, but it’s their choice. If you don’t like it, don’t imitate it. If you think it’s causing harm to others, seek to educate them. But stop sounding like Savanarola or some Puritan elder. I don’t like junk food; I don’t like fart jokes; I don’t like burping; I don’t like NASCAR; I don’t like vulgar jokes; I don’t like the NRA; I don’t like Donald Trump; I don’t like crushed velvet. That doesn’t mean that my opinion gets to be the prevailing opinion. Access to recreational sex isn’t like selling heroin to school children. It’s about choice that is inherent with risk. Lying is bad; intentionally hurting other people is bad. Forbidding or outlawing things usually makes them more appealing to some.
Bareback sex continues because it feels good; it feels better than protected sex. People like the tactical experience, and yes, the exchange of fluids. Therefore, this behavior is quite understandable. Yet, it’s not wise if you are attempting to be as cautious and risk free as possible. It’s inadvisable. Get over the fact that some people do it; if you don’t like it, don’t associate with them and follow their behavior.
Acknowledge that there are upstanding, productive, overall good people who do things that you don’t choose to do; with which you might not approve. Extra-martial affairs, recreational drug use, recreational sex, unprotected sex. Just stop being so judgmental. If you want to engage in a crusade, then let it be one to educate others, not to harangue them.
Gay men have been told from the get go that they are outsiders; that what they do is wrong; that it is morally unacceptable and unnatural. Little wonder that many gay men don’t choose to be held down by many traditional boundaries and admonitions; they’ve been told to stop, to change, and to deny who they are. Be compassionate; be kind; stop criticizing unless it is behavior intended to hurt others.
Undetectable is a great thing as it makes the chances of someone infecting someone else less likely. The hurtful comments that gay guys make disrespecting those infected with HIV always come back to bite them in the ass. The guy who screams he’s not sleeping with someone who has HIV has probably already slept with someone who has it, but hasn’t gotten tested because they feel safe and secure not knowing if they are infected.
Most guys say things like “Oh I feel fine so that means I don’t have HIV. For some reason guys believe that the moment you get infected with HIV, that immediately you start getting health problems. Truth is the human body can fight HIV and keep you healthy for years most of the time, but eventually as white CD4 & CD8 blood cell numbers decline due to HIV using them to replicate itself, that person will then began to have a downward spiral in their immune system. A healthy immune system normally has 700 to 1200 white blood cell count. When the white blood cell count gets down to 250 or below this person is considered to have AIDS because at this point the immune system can’t fight off any infection. In fact at that level the person will start to contract Opportunistic infections which are infections that only occur when the immune system is no longer able to fight infection.
Prep is good until you bareback with someone who has a strain of HIV that is resistant to Truvada which is the prescribed Prep drug. The weakness of Truvada is it only keeps you from getting infected if the strain you are exposed to isn’t resistant to it. Otherwise you will still contact HIV.
If you Bareback the best thing you can do is go to the health department local or out of town where nobody knows you and get tested regularly and even if you use condoms you need to do the same.
Herpes, HPV, scabies, body lice can still be caught even if a condom is used.
its an idiotic argument to have in the first place, there is no right, there is no wrong, its what each person is or isn’t comfortable with, period….and what most people do not realize is when someone tells you they are undetectable they are being honest and you have a choice of how to proceed, anyone who thinks a person on prep having bb sex with someone undetectable is worse than having sex using a condom with someone who says they are neg tested 6 months ago is absurd, that person could be hiv+ at that point and not know it and the condom could tear, break or slip off so get over yourself if you think just using a condom is the safest solution for everyone, because it is definitely not, honesty is the number and then decide what you want to do, no one can tell you otherwise because it’s your choice and if they don’t like your choice then fuck them……
My concern with people saying they’re undetectable these days is…”when last did you check your viral load?” You might have been undetectable months ago but might have had a cold that weakened your immune system so that your viral load is up significantly.
A major problem I have is with people who lie about their status. I think it is selfish to put one’s desire above the safety of others. Then again, the gay community should just learn to use condoms exclusively for all the protection they offer, even in a committed relationship. You’re only sure about your own commitment in that relationship and we know promiscuity is rampart in the community.
Currently I am seeing someone who is in the undetectable category, he was very open and honest about it and even helped me research everything that I had questions about and explained as best he could certain things I couldn’t understand. We’ve slept together on more than one occasion and I feel safer with him than I do with anyone else I’ve been with in the past,
This is one of the most hurtful subjects and the way people handle things is even worse! I am undetectable but that does not mean that I am going to give you anything by saying hello. I am a good and much more important an honest person. I am honest about my status yet I am treated like the scourge of the earth by being called unclean, by meeting someone and having a great conversation and not really about sex and boom I see them looking at my profile then silence but what’s worse is then I’m blocked! Wtf is that about by blocking me they protect themselves even better. I have been conducting a kinda of survey and I will talk to a guy and we get hot and heavy and he will say ” man are you clean?” I say yeah man then they say yeah then we can BB . Then I ask them how do you know I am telling you the truth and they say because I can tell your an honest person.
Well this is a constant on all sites. I know that there are so many people on here that lie and don’t tell the truth and they get the d.,? And I get called unclean all night. I went from hooking up with guys every night to only hooking up with educated people that realize that I am not unclean or nasty or kinky. So yes the undetectable agenda should be pushed and the prep should be dropped cause guess what it’s just as easy as this
NEGATIVE AND ON PREP