Speak Out : Labeling Gays?
(Photo; Facebook’s Mark Zuckerberg)
After reading that article, all I came to really realize is that I’m glad I don’t constantly read HuffPost. The fact that, that rather whiny blogger gets such coverage while others with more defined voices struggle and fight (And I don’t mean me) for hits every day is sad. To me this is a Twink crying that someone stole HIS special day. And that’s the main issue with THE WHOLE argument about this article. It’s based on a faulty foundation. The one we’re all living on, built on fear and categorization, the one that’s kinda falling apart now, from under us causing article like this to be written.
Labeling is for organizing THINGS, not people and when we label people is when we run into issues. Sexuality is such a SMALL part of who we are as people, and too many people get caught up in that. He’s upset that straight people are eating the gay cake, when the whole issue is there is just “cake” not Straight, Gay, Black, White…. Ect cake, there’s just cake.
While YES, I do agree with people ego stroking and just doing stuff to blend in, that’s not new or news. Apathy is sweeping the nation in thick sheets like The Blob. People are just not up to caring as much as they used to. They’re not used to having to commit anything more than a couple of clicks and taps on a screen or keyboard. Organization meetings and fundraisers are dead and empty, yet their RSVP on Facebook is almost 300….. why is that?
It takes guts to take an actual stand against any kind of injustice and everyone is on their own road of struggles. Some of us keep getting flats, while others seem to just cruise on down, but in reality we all end up in the same place and we’re all gonna face issues. Splitting hairs on who got the worst deal and saying you have to EARN Pride goes up against everything pride stands for. It goes against the basis of what the Rainbow Flag was created and flies to inspire, Unity. And not just a LGBT Community, a global one. All over the world people are different, different colors, different religions and then some. But the common threads linking all these communities together are the gay population is a part of all of them. We’re all just looking for love.
True the struggle is far from over for the LGBT community, but it’s a foot in the door and one that can’t be written out, like if it were a brashly made law by an overzealous President. This decision is here to stay and is already being challenged on two HUGE fronts. The Right telling us that they’re not gonna issue license and such, and now on the left in Montana a man and his wives are filing to have his second marriage legally recognized.
Soon Love will be defined as the shared partnership between consenting adults. No numbers, no races, no sexs. And while not a polygamist, who am I to stop their love?
LOVE is the goal and as humans are defining now in this age, love is confusing. And knowing who you love is tough. But solidarity is important, as is putting your actions where your social media mouth is can be important. No doubt there is a place for everyone “in line” with me as far as I’m concerned, but in my mind the line we’re in isn’t a line, it’s a chain, it’s that cheesy circle of humanity holding hands. That’s the goal, least it should be. Not EARNING Pride. No one owns pride, but we can all agree that life feels better when you have Pride, especially pride in yourself.
I realize that the article’s writer is a young, inexperienced man. His writing shows that he seems to not yet be able to see anything in a context that does not have him at the center.
He’s offended by the very idea of accepting support from those he deems unworthy of offering it, and he, of course, gets to be the judge of who’s worthy and who isn’t.
My advice to him? Get over yourself, jane, and realize that you can’t win the fight by yourself.
I agree. As long as it’s between 1) Consenting *ADULTS* and 2) They’re Mentally Capable… then it’s not one other person’s business who they screw or are screwed by, how many are in the relationship, what the genders of the partner(s) are, etc.
For some reason the political party that *screams* that they want *less government* and *smaller government* is damn interested in the opposite since they want to shove their noses, hell their whole self, into every person’s bedroom and dictate what may and may not be done, how often it’s done, etc.
Reality check, if they’re OF LEGAL AGE and MENTALLY COMPETENT, screw you. As long as all those involved are consenting, and yes even in BDSM relationships where role play and such is involved, there IS discussion and consent IN ADVANCE. It doesn’t matter if the partner(s) want to play a forced scene, it’s *STILL DISCUSSED AND AGREED UPON IN ADVANCE*.
I think a label limits a person. Fir myself i try at all cost not to be defined. I do not even call myself a gay man. I am a sexual being who finds man sex hot. The passion the intensity the uninhibited joining of oneself to another with raw lust and joy. This can not be labeled. When a label is placed so is limits. I will not be limited for then I may miss the greatest thing of my life.
Define “love” and “pride” as you will. “Marriage” is a relationship between one man and one woman – ideally meant to be a permanent, faithful and open to procreation. The post reveals an element of not accepting oneself and seeking validation by changing institutions long established. Make our own.
Sorry for this additional thought. People work to change to redefine then worry it will be redefined too much. Why not polygamy? At the end of the day it should not be about redefining or eliminating what has been but discovering something new.
This phrase sums up the problem for me: “Allies are important to the LGBT community. They’re necessary for progress. But holding up a victory flag without acquiring the battle scars is an empty gesture at best.”
I had the pleasure … no honor … of hearing a graduation speech by Congressman John Lewis (GA) recently. Born to sharecropper parents, he was a major player in the civil rights movement in the 60s. Beat up by policemen numerous times, he was arrested over 40 times. He sat at “white” lunch counters and crossed the bridge in Selma.
With all that in his past, the major point of the speech by this soft-spoken, eloquent, intelligent, and wise man was “if anyone tells you we as a nation have not made progress when it comes to racism, tell them to come walk in my shoes.”
His point? We have come a long way as a nation when it comes to race relations. That needs to be celebrated. His very life proves that point. Here one of the most militant of militants when it comes to racism has found the wisdom to step back from the battle and take stock. All too often, militants cannot do that. They can’t let the cause lessen because without the cause, they have no life.
So it makes sense that Peter sets himself above supporters when he whines “…holding up a victory flag without acquiring the battle scars is an empty gesture at best.” The gesture is far from empty. Mired in the cause, he simply has blinded himself to the meaning of thousands of people standing up and saying on Facebook “yes, we get it! We believe that what the Supreme Court did was right!”
Progress, even if the very people who should be able to see it, can’t.
Me thinks Peter Moskowitz needs to get laid, and at least get over himself. He doesn’t look old enough to have been involved in very many of the battles he wants to claim the victories for.
It’s called a celebration ! ! Take the support and joy when it’s given Peter.
I used to have a rainbow sticker on my car and i used to even think there was such a thing as gay community. Not any more. To be sure, there is a collection of gay people, but they are far from any kind of unity or community. But I think it is symptomatic of our entire society. Self indulgence and selfish pleasure is at the forefront. I never imagined being this cynical, but neither did I ever imagine society in this extreme state. Sure, we have the rainbow colors and the IDEA of community, but in practicality, we no longer have community.
While I agree with the poster that the rainbow flag is intended to represent many different people — with differences not limited to sexual persuasion, I cannot agree with the notion that because of the recent SCOTUS decision polygamy (or pedophilia) being approved is right around the corner. Nor will the absurd “personal” decisions of some Texas civil employees any indication that the decision is unstable or meaningless.
“They” said the same thing when the Civil Rights decisions made interracial marriage legal in all states back in the 60’s — and while those decisions likely DID create the precedents that led to the legalization of GAY marriage, they have not led to any real progress towards allowing polygamy — in fact, back then Utah allowed polygamy (as part of the Mormon faith), and now no State does. That would seem to be a LOSS for that suggestion.
As for the idiot civil servants who don’t want to issue marriage certificates to same-sex couples, don’t worry — plenty of civil servants across the South did the same thing in the 60’s with “mixed” weddings. Most of them either swallowed their pride and prejudices or they simply lost their job. Some even got jail time because courts don’t just ignore SCOTUS rulings (although plenty of judges across the South lost their positions on the bench because they would not comply with the new laws.)
A SCOTUS ruling cannot change the opinions (hearts and minds) of the people who object to same-sex marriage… no more than it could change the opinions of racist whites across the South — even after 50 years! To expect everyone to simply accept the ruling and keep quiet about is is fantasy (at best) or possibly delusional.
Change is NEVER instantaneous… but there are moments when the tide changes, and this has been one of THOSE times.
The recent SCOTUS ruling is like hitting a home run… it is a SCORE, and it counts BIG! But it doesn’t end the game!
Marriage is a social construct created to assure the orderly transfer of property. And for much of human history it did NOT mean one man + one woman.
It is important to us not just for the social status, but also for the 1200+ legal rights and priveleges married couples share that unmarried ones do not.
You whine when you’re not supported, and you whine when you are!
If you did not feel equal just because of marriage, you need to go see a mental contractor, and get your foundation fixed!
Where do I begin… This article is rambling and spacy! Were you on some T when you wrote this?! If the premise of this blog was to speak against labeling gays you probably should have thought twice about using a perjorative within the first 3 sentences. LGBTQ people identify with different issues in a myriad of ways, something you pointed out here. But instead of making this about tolerance you ironically attack another gay man’s perspective in your opening paragraph. Why are you contradicting yourself?
I understand that you have the right to your own opinion, but so does he. This post is offensive to me because it appears on a gay dating site, a place I should feel loved and accepted. I have a differing feeling on this subject to both of you, but where’s my blog? Stop making it so black and white. Frankly, I find this perpetual of the very problem you speak about here. Why are you two fighting in a media setting? For some petty clicks and attention. This was also covered here, the section about apathy (pretty funny btw.) This wasn’t the right place for you to get on your soapbox, so please save that shit for Facebook!
So if we’re all sharing opinions, here’s mine. I’m amazed by the sense of entitlement some gay men have. The Supreme Court just ruled that they will recognize gay marriage and you can’t tolerate a peer’s opinion? Why don’t you take a page from their book since you’re so incredibly progressive. Nothing is owed to you for being gay buta mutual respect for simply existing.
I agree with Eric in the post above. The guy is whiny and needs to get laid and over it. I’ve been out longer than the writer has lived, and been in long term relationships. I’d marry my bf but can’t afford rings. And marriage has been legal in my State for awhile (Hawaii).
First why is there a photo of mark zuckerberg with a rainbow flag plastered across his face. Is he gay? Anyway alot was said. Peter must be young. Unfortunately the life of a gay person is difficult. I was young once, I had stars in my eyes and thought a man in a suit of Armor on a white horse would come and scoop me up and take me to his castle. Didn’t happen. We’ve made progress, yes but at what price? We have the internet but we’re more distant from each other than ever. It makes it less personal and tempting to dehumanize a fellow human being. And oh by the way there are all kinds, colors and flavors of cake. That’s from a person that prays to God everyday that cake is a health food.
Yay! Finally a topic of substance, as black/African American/”Goldstar” gay/Hiv poz/Texan/former military, I can see the benefits to compartmentalizations of types but not to the point of divisiveness, with that said I have experienced intra-racism in the black community and intra-homophobia and racism in the gay community as well, with all that said, there will always be issues of fear and competition inherent in communities of people force to acclimate to hierarchical structures in society and the benefits that come with perceived as “better”, unfortunately it is learned human nature
Full disclosure: In gay years, I’m well past my “Sell By” date. My “advanced age” influences my point of view. I’m employed in marketing and advertising, so it’s my job to pay close attention to society and culture.
I am troubled by the fact that people today simply do not read carefully, and so-called “reporting” is even sloppier. Example: Peter Moskowitz’s article appeared on The Washington Post site, not HuffPost. The opinion piece was posted in “PostEverything,” a contributor-opinion space on WashPost’s site, so I wouldn’t consider it “coverage;” it’s one writer’s opinion. In this case, the writer is a professional who specializes in presenting material that challenges current public opinion. It’s how he gets attention — and web clicks.
If we assume that Moskowitz chose to face the opposite direction in a tide of support for marriage equality, then most of his complaints aren’t worth discussing.
There are gay-rights battle veterans who deserve our respect and homage, and Moskowitz isn’t one of them. But that’s not the point. We should simply accept with grace that a multitude of people — including Mark Zuckerberg (who is straight) — have chosen to indicate their support of the U.S. Supreme Court ruling.
I have to believe that huge numbers of people recognize that the marriage equality ruling isn’t just about marriage, its rights and benefits. They are celebrating the fact that an arm of the U.S. government has finally proclaimed to the American people that discrimination against GLBT neighbors is no longer acceptable behavior. That’s worth celebrating. I’m not seeing how any of this relates to “labeling.”
Seems most here are willing to draw the line on the definition of marriage allowing some and not others. Why are YOU willing to draw the line where YOU do? The very same arguments used in the SCOTUS decision WILL be used by others to further move that line (we are already seeing it). Will they succeed overnight? Naw. May take a few years or decades but it WILL happen. The SCOTUS lied when they ruled in DOMA that the definition of marriage was a State issue instead of the Feds. In actuality with this recent ruling they said it was the Court.
Is there ANYTHING in the ruling where the Court specifically says that the definition is now permanent and cant be expanded to other excluded groups?v The Court doesn’t usually work that way. They often answer ONLY a particular question before them, leaving other cases to decide the next question that their ruling gives rise to or exisiting questions their ruling doesn’t answer.
“Love wins”
Nope.
“Whats love got to do with it?”
Nothing.
@TopKekM8
I appreciate your voice and what you’re saying, but take your own advice before lashing out at me. If you want or ever have the urge to write a blog for Adam4Adam, please do! The site is ALWAYS looking for content from their users. I’m just one voice of many.
Dave puts content up as fast as he can, and I submit stuff now and then. For a time I didn’t write anything and for those months there were a few pieces submitted from users, but I’d say 75% came from Dave.
You want more than black and white, use your words constructively and not to lash out at volunteers sharing their opinion on an open forum. I’ve never felt welcomed or safe on gay dating sites, and usually it’s because of guys like you who’d rather tear people down instead of just saying your bits and leaving it at that.
My post always end in the positive, affirming that no matter what one voice and one person is no more valuable than any other life.
For everyone else, I love what I’m reading! And I agree with some points from all of you, but I do wanna say that Peter isn’t that young, in fact he’s older than I am. I don’t know him personally or professionally but I did google him thoroughly and was surprised that someone with as much experience that his resume shows was so closed minded on an issue.
PLease keep the dialog going! And submissions are for everyone, if you get tired of seeing me on my “soapbox” please chime in and send your submissions to [email protected]
Jay. Well said.
Hell, we are more disrespectful to each other than any outside group.
osei: I didn’t post your comment. If you want me to post it, stay polite with people that take time to write posts. I made a post few weeks ago about it, check it out to refresh your memory : http://blog.adam4adam.com/2015/06/a4a-blog-code-of-conduct/
I can see the point the youth is making, a point that applies so often in life, a point which most of us understand, whether we like to admit it or not: when you struggle with a hard situation, and you get no help, not even a public word of support, but finally get success and all those people suddenly act like they helped, I can see the annoyance. A few struggle to push a heavy wagon up a hill, as many stand by at the crest to see if it slides back down, then jump on once it starts freely down the other side, stealing seats from the pushers who don’t have the chance to climb on. Such opportunists! What would they have done, had the wagon rolled backward? Rushed to stop it, or jeered at how they knew it would fail? Thebyouth may feel, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.
However, at least now, the spectators have branded themselves. When the backlash begins–and it will!–they will be more inclined to save face by committing to supporting the cause. They will be viewed as closet supporters and will experience pressure of their own; they will “earn” their cake after they have eaten it. So let’s not spite them. Don’t provoke them into thinking we’re unworthy of support. Better late than never. And most of them probably felt guilty or uncertain for not helping, and with this new opening, will never want to feel that guilt again. Red with shame for being yellow while things were blue.
So the youth was petulantly possessive, but I see his point. But I’ll also accept the implied apology from those who finally got off the fence where everyone can see it.
Zuckerberg’s merely a douchbag anyway.
Thanks Greg,
Just wanted to post this quote from Michel Foucault on the question of the Western difficult relationships with sex;
Foucalt suggests that it is because sexuality is where the body and identity come together. If you can control the sexuality of a group of people, then you can control that.
I see what this kid is doing. Although I am still young. I have no intention to make people feel bad about not going through the same emotional battle I had gone through. If indeed that is what happens. He keeps talking about his own battles he went through. Acting as if its just about him. I am sure a lot of people interpret his words and make it seem as though he is the only victim that understands what is going on and what gay pride really stands for. When he checks his “Facebook” does he not realize that people might already be out and changing the rainbow on their profile. Maybe they are part of that movement? The LGBT community is together for the most part;however, indo not agree with what people are doing with the flag and Jesus. We got out rights that should be glorious but going that far is unacceptable. Things like that are the reason for a dramatic ending. The gentlemen before my time have been through a hell of a lot more then I have. I respect them for that. At least what we can do is make sure they are safe. Not acting out just because “We” got our rights. No, they got them. We were just the support later on. It’s not about yourself. It’s about everyone who is a part of it. Yes there may be some people that are supporters. That just means that we have more followers within LGBT communities. They don’t “Have” to be active with us. Yes it will help bit I’m sure a lot of people understand what the rainbow flag stands for. If it made him feel uncomfortable then he was not comfortable with himself. Which there lay the problem. I may be young but I have watched people suffer, whilst I have suffered along side some of them. We have enough grief, hate, anger, and sadness in this world. If he can complain about how others think or might think then he sure as hell is one to not know what the flag stands for. Knowing that he wasn’t taught about it rather, he did research and found out that way. Only to save himself a face. Make a name in the world. That’s what’s wrong with people these days. All about fame, to be publically known amongst the world. His views are no different than those fighting against the LGBT community.
I may be misreading or misunderstanding your opening about not reading HuffPost often. The article you linked to is actually from The Washington Post. Am I missing something or was it autocorrect? 🙂