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Health: THE CHASER’S TALE – PART ONE

a 3d rendering of Red blood cells inside the vein.

 

(This post was written by Bob Leahy at PositiveLite.com)

I first met Joseph at an HIV conference in Toronto in October. Earnest, polite and well spoken, but with fierce looking facial piercings and black painted fingernails that give him an activist’s edge, Joseph is clearly a thoughtful, well-educated man who finds himself on a journey he is still trying to fully understand.

We had first asked him to write about his experiences, including his motivation for seeking to become poz – commonly called bug chasing. And he did so for PositiveLite.com here.  The story he told is both fascinating and difficult to comprehend for those who have not walked in his shoes. More importantly, it begged to be told in more detail. I wanted to know more about why Joseph wanted to become poz, about the role crystal meth played (or not), about who he did it with and how. How did it feel? Was he tuned on? All these questions and more he answered frankly and openly over lunch in Toronto one day last week.

I asked tough questions, but my intent was not to be judgemental here but rather to comprehend. Joseph is fully aware that not all will approve of or even understand his actions. His need, as he started in his last article, is to provoke thought – his own and that of others – on why we do what we do.

Bob: Joseph, the first thing I wanted to talk about was your decision to become poz. When did that thought first occur to you?

Joseph: I appreciate the opportunity for this conversation, Bob. But before we begin, I want to emphasize that I’m describing and interpreting my own experience. I don’t in any way want to model behaviour, nor do I want to glamourize or romanticize or eroticize or fetishize or otherwise encourage or promote bug chasing and, especially, meth use.

Good. That’s important to get out.

To answer your question I had never even heard about the concept of bug chasing until two years ago when I was volunteering at the 519 at the Senior Pride Network conference. And as I was reading and researching I came across a reference to “bug chasing”.

What did you think, Joseph?

Well it was one of those things that make you go “hmmm.”

You didn’t think this might be fantasy? You know there has been much speculation about to what extent bug chasing actually exists?

No. I could go online right now to various sites and I could find tens if not dozens of bug chasers in Toronto.

But how do you know they are real?

Well that’s true. There is a fantasy element, and you don’t know what is fetishistic and what is real, but there are people who profess to bug chasing and gift-giving online. But where are they? I haven’t met any of them. Even within AIDS Service Organizations – as a health issue, as an HIV prevention issue, there is complete silence.

I think I can probably answer that. It’s viewed as a very small phenomenon and ASOs must concentrate their efforts where the numbers are.

Maybe. Anyway, back to my story, I read about it two years ago and it was when I started using meth on a regular basis, when I first started injecting meth, that I became aware of sites such as BarebackRT and, in particular, Breeding Zone, where I first had a real discussion about bug chasing and hooking up.

OK one question there. I’ve heard it said that at crystal meth parties there is not much fucking going on and that the most popular sexual activities that go on are jacking off and watching porn together.

That’s true. That’s been my experience, because there is such a thing as “tina dick.” And then too there is a whole slamming community – a site where guys can go and watch each other inject meth. They post videos of themselves doing it too.

Slamming sites! Didn’t know about those. What sites? Can I look them up?

Well there’s NastyKinkPigs, say, for starters. But there is an offshoot of it called, if I remember correctly, NastyChemPigs. And Breeding Zone is another. So it wasn’t until I started slamming that I became aware of the real possibility of bug chasing. It was no longer this article in a magazine in which I had intellectual curiosity. There was a real possibility of meeting people in Toronto who were talking about getting together. So I discovered that getting infected was a real possibility. Then I discovered, as you referred to, that there are those who merely fantasize or fetishize and you don’t know that until you meet. But as I mentioned in my article I would never blame – I would never say that the tina made de me do it because although meth introduced me to the possibility of bug chasing, I was stone cold sober as I continued to contemplate it. Once I became aware of it, I could not let go of the possibility.

So let me stop you there. There was something about it that attracted you and I got from your article that there are two main things – one the eroticism of it all, and secondly you wanted to be part of a community and the poz community attracted you. Let’s talk about the first one, the fetishism. Does the idea of being poz get you hard? There is a sexual energy that comes from it? I’m not quite getting it.

I can’t explain the unexplainable. Some things just are.

But try and explain why being poz is sex-charged.

You know that is really hard. I don’t really get it. But poz semen, poz blood. . . Again I hadn’t heard of blood slamming and when I first saw that, there was this frisson of excitement. But I want to emphasize again that it wasn’t meth that made me do it. But I want to talk about meth taking me to a dark place.

I struggled with crack use starting in 2007 when I was fifty-two years old. When I was doing crack I knew I wanted to get off it. I describe my experience of crack as an escape from reality into a few moments of bliss. And it was just a few moments. It was in December 2012 when I started doing meth, injecting it. It became my substance of choice. Meth for me was a portal to an alternative reality – and I liked that reality, it brought out the bad boy in me.

So getting back then to the idea of becoming poz, you obviously thought it erotic, but you must have thought too of the price of becoming poz, that there would be a downside – health issues, money issues, dealing with stigma issues. Did you consider the price?

No.

Why not? None of those issues made any difference to you?

Nope.

That’s somewhat irrational. Explain.

There was no calculation. As I said once I learned that it was not just academic, that it was possible to find someone in Toronto to do it, I just could not escape that thought.

So it didn’t matter if HIV was potentially life–threatening or alternatively treatable? None of those issues came in to your head?

No. I’m Hep C as well. Hep C was like a bonus. I wasn’t seeking to become Hep C. It so happened that the guys who blood slammed me were HCV-positive.

Why was it a bonus?

I’m being somewhat sarcastic.

But let me guess. So because you wanted to be an outlaw, you might as well go whole hog.

That’s part of it but within the bug chasing community, there are also those looking for full-blown AIDS; they want to be infected by someone with full-blown AIDS. Or with every possible STI.

So of those people did you ever have any judgmental attitudes towards them? Did you move from a stage of thinking “that’s really weird” to a place of understanding?

I didn’t think I was in any place, in any position, to criticize. Personally, I wasn’t seeking syphilis or gonorrhea. I didn’t want to go there.

But I’m hearing HIV for you is a) not a big deal, b) rather erotic and c) tapped you into a community you liked the look of.

I’ve had a lifelong search for community.

Did you see us as bunch of renegades or something that you wanted to belong to?

To a certain extent ,Bob, although I’ve since learned that everyone has a different relationship with HIV. My relationship is very much coloured by the reality that I became infected deliberately. Part of the narrative of the bug chasing community – if I were to follow the narrative through to the end, then I would become, I would pick up the role of, a breeder.

I see. OK, I’m still having difficulty in visualizing the exchange you would have had with the person who bred you.

Well, the conversation was initiated online To the extent that we all have profiles the idea was somewhat mutual. I’m pretty sure it was the first person who infected me. He was a nice guy, one with whom I could imagine striking up a friendship. We were together for a couple of days and had far-ranging conversations. At one point in the weekend there were two other guys and there was a lot of sexual play, sexual talk . . .

So did the event have a sort of a ritual significance?

There is ritual. I don’t want to romanticize it. Part of the ritual of injecting oneself is hitting a vein, pulling back on the plunger and seeing blood. Almost immediately you get really high. But I want to be very clear that I’m not recommending it for anybody. The chemicals took me to a dark place.

Was it easy to get out of all that? Are you still in recovery?

I think I’ll always be in recovery. For me with crack there was the attraction to the drug itself, to the high. But for me with meth, though, it wasn’t so much of a high as it was an energy pulsing through my body. And when I hooked up with the guy who I think pozzed me it was probably within the first two or three hours of being there. We had talked about it. And I asked him to do it. I invited, him, I knew he was HIV-positive, he had told me he was Hep C-positive too. I invited him to give me a blood slam.

And he said?

Oh fuck yeah.

I thought he might. 

To be continued . . .


There are 41 comments

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  1. Chip

    I’m really not sure where this is going, and I don’t want to appear judgmental… but admit that I will appear so…

    …and far be it for me to take someone else’s “inventory” (a term from addiction recovery programs)… but this SCREAMS of both addiction and mental illness to me.

    Now I consider myself a huge libertarian — that is, I don’t believe that I have the right (nor should I have the right) to tell anyone… even an addict… how they should live their life. Nor am I a mental health professional…

    But mental illness is another matter. (Let’s not get into an argument about the difference between addiction and mental illness. Suffice it to say that I DO believe that there IS a difference.) And I think this is riding a very close line of crossing into glorifying or romanticizing mental illness.

    And that, I believe, is downright dangerous.

  2. Greg

    For whatever reason, some people decide to kill themselves. This action, however it is justified, leaves a mess for other people to clean up. The interviewee is both suicidal and selfish, and his story is sickening.

  3. marc

    WTF? This is just too bizarre. No wonder we gays are disliked and hated and ostracized (at times, not always) with alleged “bug chasers” like this. He wants to be part of the “poz community”? Why not stay part of the healthy “non-poz community”? Sheesh.

  4. Cameron Lewis

    I am sitting here gobsmacked at this article, one from the courage to share the experience and two from the sheer sense of “what the fuck, fool?” My responses much like the interviewee will be my views and beliefs- I have spent most of my 25 plus year career as a behaviorist who has focused on HIV prevention, addiction and systems. I personally see someone chasing the HIV as the same as some one wanting to commit suicide, This isn’t about erotism, it is about a severe destructive mental illness. Over the years I have heard every excuse in the book from chasers-from- “I want to be in the in crowd, I don’t feel connected because of condoms, bareback is more spontaneous-I want to be spontaneous, it is exciting–I want to be taken care of, I want to feel part of a group- to it was just something to do.” Personally at times I view deliberate self infection as selfish, irresponsible and criminal activity– The cost of supporting an HIV positive/full blown AIDS patient is astronomical-and your choosing to become positive puts a 100K a year additional burden on health care and more on social support systems-100K that could buy 15 to 20 patients PREP, or 20 addicts inpatient treatment. Then add in another 85K, to 100 K for Hep C treatment-well…- An untreated drug addict who is actively using and HIV positive is a walking “Typhoid Harry”-who in a drug induced haze may or may not share their HIV status before sharing injection equipment or sex putting others at risk. Worse yet treated needle injectors who share syringes with uninfected risk introducing strains of HIV immune to the current generations of HIV medications. All I can say is really? really because you were feeling alone and isolated?— Arrgghh

  5. joey

    Fucked up. Irresponsible. Bar them from any medical care associated with this fucking shit. I’ve been positive since 1985. Accidental infection. Healthcare has been a bitch to get. Ifought hard and long managing my health with minimal costs and medications. These bitches need more “therapy” than I can post. When I encounter one of these freaks online Igo the fuck off.

  6. Dan

    I do not think that any person has any right to judge and criticize someone else’s life decisions if they are not hurting someone else. I also believe that being selfish (the right kind of selfish) is a good thing for not own yourself but for others. If someone wants to become an honest disease free prostitute, a dare devil, or even if someone wants to be Kim Kardashian we have no right to judge them because if you really look at them their life decisions are not negatively affecting you or me.
    That being said this is not an instance where I genuinely feel he his negatively affecting and hurting others around him. He is being impossibly insensitive and selfish. He is not considering all those in the past who have died because of HIV and Aids. He is also not remembering those who fight everyday today to make this disease a thing of history. He is laughing in those people’s faces. People who seek out to keep a disease that hurts so many and can be whipped out are no different than the people who believe in segregating people again or people who think gays should all be dead and are going straight to hell. Those ideals are diseases too no different from how “Chasers” are trying to undo the hard work so many have died for.

  7. Logan

    I like that every comment attacking the man in this article has gotten past the moderators, but mine defending him was deleted. I guess the moderators have decided this man deserves to be attacked. Go A4A.

    • blog

      Logan: I didn’t delete your comment, it’s just that during the night, I usually sleep 🙂
      I approved it as soon as I opened my computer.

  8. Ron N, Dallas, TX

    I thought this story was supposed to be remarkable? Its boring. The respondent does not (or has not) give(n) anything of substance as a reason for wanting to sero-convert; additionally, he’s in his late 40’s when he converts? I had always thought of bug-chasers being in their 20s, where finding a “community” or peer group might be more important. I wish I had been given the choice to become poz. If I had, I am pretty sure I’d decline.

  9. seth

    Utterly, totally flabbergasted. I am here with my mouth open. This interview makes me angry, heartsick, sad. Did this really needed to be in our public forum? Wow.

    • blog

      seth: yes, why not? I felt like we needed to talk about this taboo subject, and after reading the comments, I think I was right.

  10. Plane

    Ok, many levels here. First that this would be published here. Why not get infected by TB, Ebola, so many choices. This pushes us back decades, if this is our representation we should not be allowed to get married.

  11. JC

    When one thinks about all the human and financial resources that go into keeping HIV+ people who did NOT intentionally become Poz alive and relatively healthy, this bug chasing nonsense can only be described with one word: SELFISH. And the “gift givers” as CRIMINAL.

    If those of you who have intentionally sought HIV would pay your own way after the fact, maybe SELFISH could be downgraded to CRAZY or STUPID. But you know most of y’all will have your hands out for free or reduced-priced meds, testing, counseling, etc.

    Another take: In the USA, we are only one presidential election away from Republicans controlling all branches of government. There are those within the increasingly Tea Party led Republican orbit who will jump on this “chaser” phenomenon to justify reducing or eliminate HIV-related assistance for everyone. And then we will regress to 1985 again when HIV routinely advances to full blown AIDS, and then often to death. Because only the independently very wealthy will be able to obtain the modern meds and health care that has changed most HIV prognosis to life instead of death.

    So PLEASE look at the big picture and not your own selfish warped kinks.

  12. AlphaForm

    I can understand where this comes from in the sense of having a death wish. People eroticize death all the time even in ways that don’t seem to be connected to sexuality in the first place. I know that I’ve looked into bareback things a few times (I’ve always come to my senses before doing anything dumb), but when does that happen? During times of extreme depression. It’s hard to imagine getting to the point where getting HIV sounds like a good idea, but maybe the meth helped him get into those sorts of depths.

  13. CHRIS

    I was waiting for some comments to show up to see how others felt about this. There isn’t much I can say that hasn’t already been said but I agree with most of the comments. I don’t want to seem like an asshole but Joseph seems a little bit pathetic and sad to me.

  14. Rick76

    OK here we have a 52 year(2007) old man in his mid life crisis trying to get his youth back and then chasing H.I.V. in 2012 and succeeding in getting it. So how many others has he infected since? Talk about a selfish bastard with NO honor! This guy should be horse whipped and no medical attention given!

  15. Tall_btm

    I’m surprised at the responses so far; and I’m probably going to fall into the same trap.

    This individual has shared a slice of his life with us and the responses so far have been judgmental. Even the well thought out message by Cameron Lewis would further isolate the interviewee and continue to push him away. After understanding from his experience, I would have expected him to desire to reach out, lift up and be supportive.

    I don’t know that any of us will truly understand this interviewee/bug chaser, but I do appreciate the opportunity you have provided us Dave to take a glimpse into someone else’s life.

    We need to learn to embrace one another and not be treating each other like lepers. Where is the compassion?

  16. rick

    we havent even heard the entire story yet and there are people judging already. i have learned that there are many turn ons that i dont understand, but i have also learned not to rush to judge them. some people may object to things that you are into also. do u bareback ? do u have anonymous sex? do u swallow? others may feel these are “crazy” and ask “why would u take that risk”? but its just something inside all of us that turns us on, we cant always explain it, sometimes its just like flipping a switch. i never thought i would do bb, i avoided any guys that were into it. until i tried it one day and realized i now understood the turn on. i dont think the person in the article is crazy or sick or suicidal. he never said he wants to die. i also think the drug use and the conversion are two separate issues. its easy for some to say , he is on drugs so he is sick. but as he stated he had these feelings even when he was not on drugs. i can understand people saying they do not understand his actions, but i do not understand calling him crazy and sick. remember there are those that think gay sex by itself is sick and has no place in society.

  17. Brian

    people STOP being judgemental. That is the problem with society as a whole. Everyone has their own walk in life. It doesnt matter whether a person choose to willing be infected. It’s that person’s walk. It doesn’t matter if a person becomes infected from a committed relationship, a cheating spouse, sleeping around, pnp, or from drug use.
    It’s the hand that ur dealt, now you have to play it!

  18. Hunter0500

    There’s a funny thing about whenever the “judgmental” card is played. Whenever that card is used, it is used to defend an action or actions by an individual that clearly are sub-par, below normal standards of behavior, inappropriate, incorrect, etc. It’s like those playing the card are attempting to rain guilt down upon those who are pointing out that someone’s behavior appears obviously to be irrational, inappropriate, incorrect, nonsensical, illogical, senseless, irresponsible, not right, uncalled for, poor … or any one or more standards that commonsense, commonplace behavior says is … wrong.

    For many, the actions chosen by the individual here are tough to understand and difficult to agree with. It is the individual’s right, however, to chose to do them. That does not mean, however, that individual should expect in a public forum to be exempt from judgments from others.

  19. mtnbiker1185

    I am glad I don’t live in Canada and have to pay for his ‘free’ health care. That is the disgusting part about this. He admitted to not thinking of the financial repercussions of his actions. Not to get all political, but that is a huge downside to government run health care. You will now have people like him not taking into account the medical/financial ramifications of their decisions because someone else will be covering the tab.

  20. UncleWhip

    Well ! I have heard of the bug chasers and also pox guys who,think it’s okay to breed its pass it on! As far,as I know. It is a crime in the USA. To infect another! With out their consent!(. Wonder? if that is true ? I mean even if you consented! Would it still not be attempted murder?). To the law that is?.
    Okay back to my comment! I am 66 and been out long before. HIV appeared! For some strange reason I am still HIV negative! Have worn a condom less that a dozen times in my sexual adventures!? All these years!, and am not a chaser nor wanting to receive any bugs!
    This young man consented to the interview and tried to be honest in answering the questions put to him!,
    I do not. Understand the whole idea of why he did what he did! But we all make decisions at times that we have to live with! I can understand the urge to belong,To a group! To be part of a segment of the GaY community !
    But. So many beautiful young men have had thier lives cut short. By this disease, !why would anyone want to help spread it ? Let’s work to eradicate it!
    Well not what I meant to,say! But hope you all walk a bit in another’s shoes ! By reading his comments!

  21. Seaguy

    For all the judgemental people out there get over yourselves. We have always had people who are going to live the way they want even if it is self destructive this is nothing new. We will always have people like this, it manifests in different ways. But the one thing that does no one any good is the judgemental bitching and criticizing. What gives you the right to tell someone else how to live their life anyway? Just because you live a life that is within societal norms does not make you the moral authority for all.

  22. nojoke111

    as a poz person this has got to be the most disgusting and offensive interview ive ever read. This interview does nothing but add to the already Stigma about living with Aids/HIV. Adam4Adam should publish an apology to all persons harmed that this article has caused…Wake up guys..this isnt interesting or funny ! This is a major Slap in the face to all of us that has fought this disease and the Stigma thats associated with it. Come on A4A you can do so much better !

    • blog

      nojoke111 : I am disgusted by that as well… but I decided to publish it anyways to show that it exists, and to get people discussing about it.

  23. Aaron

    I hate that we get so mad at opinions. It’s not judgmental to comment that this guy is completely disillusioned. People who look at questions like “didn’t you care that…?” and can just shrug it off with no thought exhibit psychotic tendencies. You have to feel SOMEthing when you talk about this. I’ve heard of bug chasers but I didn’t realize how twisted their view of life is. This isn’t Pokeman! Don’t catch them all!

  24. Judgemental Virgo

    You know, It’s not the Bug Chaser that I find myself having a big issue with. It’s the person who thinks this information is of any value to anyone else. Blogger included. As far as the Bug Chaser, my feelings are pretty much the same as most of the other comments, so I won’t focus on that. The two people I’m rolling my eyes at are the Interviewer and our Blogger. The interviewer thought that this was “Fascinating”? Really? The definition: Enchanting?, Enthralling?, Irresistible?, Charming? What pisses me off is that this is the sort of garbage that causes us to have to struggle so hard to be taken seriously. And then publish a two part article about it like it’s an important part of our community. And then! Publish the websites where Bug Chaser’s can find each other, rather than just say they exist. I’ll go easy on our Blogger simply because if I don’t, my comment will disappear quickly, but come on Blogger, really. You actually thought this needed to be talked about? So much that you devoted two parts to it? What next? A day in the life of a heroine addict with known locations to score a Fix and Needles? Nojoke111 is right, and I don’t buy your response to him for a minute. He totally called you on it and I can see the sweat on your brow.

  25. VAL

    “Some people voluntarily wants to get hiv virus” this is how much we need to know about this matter, detailed information can glamorize it and facilitate unwanted behaviour in impressionable and vulnerable people , it is interesting reading but unnecessary


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