Gay Stuff : Tops vs Bottoms
I told you I met a police officer right? So I had another lunch with him yesterday. When the waitress asked us “is it two bills or one bill?” at the end of our meal, I immediately said “two”! Then my police officer said “one bill only, Dave is going to pay”. Then I said as a joke (but there was a bit of truth in it…) “Noooo, the top has to pay”. Then he was wondering why I was saying that. I simply answered that tops like to take charge so they have to take charge of everything, including meals. So he started laughing….and ended up paying.
Maybe it’s because I’m used to be with older guys or guys that have a bit or a lot more money than me, but I usually expect my man to pay for me. Not because I’m a princess or anything, but as a 100% bottom, I like to be taken care of. Like a straight couple I guess…the chick likes to be treated by her man…
What’s your opinion on this? Am I right to expect a man (top) to pay for me? Or is it old school?
Dave
You know I treated a friend to a movie awhile ago. I looked at it as a date, he didn’t, we didn’t hookup or anything after, so I was puzzled why he didn’t take it as a date. But it just depends on the couple, and I suppose if there is a real connection if it is a date to consider paying for the other.Other wise, I don’t see a problem in both paying, who know’s he may not have as much money as you think he does.
As a bottom I don’t feel the need to be taken care of or paid for. As a fact I like to do the paying where and when I can. The gesture is nice if someone pays for me… However, the idea that this is the “norm” comes out (not as offensive but) a little degrading. (Not a jab at you Dave, or anyone else) I guess with all the things in life, I have had to fight to be independent and it is still a struggle for me. But IN MY OPINION it’s a norm that is dying, with gay and straight couples. Though in my personal opinion, I don’t like to be paid for.
I think those kinds of gender roles are kind of archaic. The thing I think is nice about being in a relationship with two members of the same gender is that all of those rules are out the window–there is no prescribed person who pays, or cleans, or cooks, or does the laundry. No one person makes all the money, no one person is supposed to have ultimate control. You’re free to be who you are and mesh together any way you damn well please, and I like that.
As for sexual roles, I’m mostly a bottom and I like being the one who pays–especially if I asked you out. I think, for me, that’s how it generally works. I ask you, I pay/you ask me, you pay.
the idea of someone taking the check because odd their sexual role is dumb as hell and yes, you are a princess.
I disagree. When you are dating someone of the same gender, you have the luxury of throwing the gender roles out the window. There is the opportunity to share responsibilities and roles leaving sex to sex and not letting it define you outside of the bedroom. Obviously, your options also include finding something that works for you both, so if he doesn’t mind and you don’t mind, and it works, that’s fine. But I don’t think we should stick with the antiquated conventions of straight people.
If I ask someone out, I feel I should pay. If I am asked out, they should pay. If it’s just friends having a social meeting, pay for yourself.
Sounds like a princess. I date women and even women typically offer to pay their share. I wouldn’t feel good about myself expecting to be paid for.
Dave, curious. You always refer to the guys you date by their profession. “I met a police officer”. “I dated a pilot”, etc. Is this the village people? You see people through that lens first and foremost? A person’s job or career doesn’t even show on the radar for the people I date. It’s irrelevant to me, let alone the way I’d refer to them. Does their profession really sway your attraction that much? I’m not attacking you. I’m genuinely curious, so no need to censor my post.
My bf and I are vers and just by the looks one would guess I’m the top, but we already jokingly stated I’m the wife in the relationship because I’m the one in charge of most house chores and the one “without a sense of humor” and I’m fine with it.
I can see what you’re saying. I don’t date much but when I have gone on a date I always wonder who’s gonna pay. I mean the guy is the one that asked me out but I also don’t wanna assume he’s paying for me. I almost always pay for myself which kinda makes it feel like less of a date I guess. Which might explain never having a second date. I’m vers btw and most if the time these dates happen before we have sex. I guess I’m just saying that personally I don’t see any guidelines. In a straight relationship the dynamic is clear: the man doesn’t want to seem dependent on the woman and he wants to be seen as a provider; the woman is expected to be taken care of and wants proof that this man can do that. Any man that expects the girl to pay on the first date is almost always written off as a loser. Gay relationships on the other hand are different. There’s two men who could either want to express dominance or be provided for, and usually in the first stages of a relationship you can’t tell which one they want to be. I can definitely see your point of view. I don’t really think there’s a right answer. If you expect to be taken care of since you are less dominant in the bedroom that makes sense. I would think that some bottoms might opt to pay to let their top man know that they not only want to serve them in the bedroom but in public too. I hope I didn’t ramble too much
Unless you’re with your sugardaddy, you are 100% wrong to expect someone else to pay for you all the time. Top/bottom has NOTHING to do with it. “Old school” has nothing to do with it. It has more to do with manners, courtesy, and etiquette. Sex positions don’t enter into the picture.
No, you are not right. A relationship is about equal treatment.
What sexual position you prefer doesn’t mean you’re entitled to special privileges.
This is a dialogue waiting to happen. The “man” shouldn’t always be expected to pay.
It’s old school. A man likes to be pampered and shown attention as well no matter what role he has in the relationship.
It’s a new age now, change with the times.
I’m a bottom but I’m also man. I’d never just expect a guy to pay for me just because he’s a top. If he’s wealthy and wants to treat, then fine. But to expect him to pay cause he’s a top, I think that’s wrong
I gotta say, Dave, I think it’s a totally outdated notion. Sexually, I’m a btm…totally. I have a very high pressure job where I make decisions every day that affect thousands of people directly. I don’t shy away from this, and I love being “in control” at my job because I feel I am making positive steps toward making the world a better place. My boyfriend also has a great career, but I am, by far, the “breadwinner,” therefore most of our life expenses are paid for by me. My man is in charge in the bedroom and “takes care of me” amazingly. All bottoms are not shy retiring delicate flowers to be carefully tended. I simply relinquish control between the sheets 😉
It’s not old school. It’s just rude. And whether intentional or not, it’s selfish. It has nothing to do with male vs female, top vs bottom. You’re a partnership. There is a reason they call it “equality”. You may be a bottom, but that doesn’t make you some damsel in distress. I don’t even think women thought to be that anymore. So show him you appreciate him just as much as you want him to show he appreciates you.
Its one thing for a TOP to take charge of a situation,in or out of the bedroom….but its another thing for a bottom to ASSUME that every Man/Top is going to “take care” of you. In turn as a 100% bottom, its also up to you to please/take care of your TOP in and out of the bedroom…..and if you can’t/won’t even buy lunch, why would anyone want to do for you.
If you just want to be “taken care of” just become an escort or get a sugar daddy. Just don’t start crying about how you dont get respect.
Top or bottom pay your own way unless you alternate.
im versatile and like all dicks fucking me
The stereotypical, antiquated, and self-centered outlooks in this post made it just plain too painful to read.
The person in the relationship that did the inviting to Lunch/Dinner/breakfast is the one that pays…. unless it is clearly stated in advance… Has nothing to do with Top or Bottom.
If the top invites then he pays.. if the bottom invites… then he pays.
No, there’s nothing as sexy as a bottom who pays.
It’s nice to treat each other. That’s how it should be. Ur spoiled and want want want it ur a gold digger. U have a penis between ur legs so no mater what gay guys say about submissive bottoms they still like the fact that the person getting fuckedbis a man. Get over ur wanted to be a princess and try being a prince.
Your views are very sexist.
in a world where women sometimes i have to fear for their safety when going from college class to class, and in the same world where they had to once fight for the right to vote and STILL must fight over issues involving their own body, its amazing that as men we willingly decide to encompass the hetero-normative outdated standard of what makes one a “woman” in the relationship.
If you want to be taken care of, ok. but you arent doing it as a boy who grew up taught that men are supposed to taken care of you. you like it because you prefer it. I didnt come out to constantly compare my ideas and feelings and beliefs to heterosexual standards. i got tired of it. thats why i came out.
Being a top I disagree with always having to pay. That’s like having to pay for sex and I don’t do that. What’s wrong with taking turns?
I think top and bottom most often refers to sexual positioning. If it spills over into other aspects of the way a couple relates that’s what makes that relationship unique. And that is most often negotiated–not assumed.
Sexual positioning by itself should not have anything to do–automatically–with who pays for dinner, who does the dishes, who walks the dog, or even who pays the bills (dinners aside).
Plenty of total bottoms share equally in household matters. When it comes to finances, it is often the person who makes the most money who shoulders a larger share of that burden. Could be a top. Could be a bottom. Could be both are truly vers.
How a man treats me in life has little to do with the roles either of us plays in bed. Sometimes the dominant one in the relationship is not the top during sex. A total bottom in bed may dominate the relationship because he is older, richer, more experienced, or because the sexual top has big responsibilities at work and wants someone else to make the decisions at home. This is not the 1960s, where the guy assumed that if it paid for dinner he was getting laid. If I want, I can pay for dinner and still throw my legs up, or let you pay for dinner and then throw YOUR legs up! One has nothing to do with the other.
Don’t get me wrong. There’s nothing wrong with assuming that the top always pays. And if the top(s) you’re with agree(s) with this attitude, great! But you better make sure the top[s) understand(s) this before you choose a place to eat.
I disagree. I’m a bottom. My boyfriend and I have always traded on who picks up the check. During his time of money problems, I’ll let him pay for pizza, but if it’s a more expensive meal I’ll pick up the check because I love him and I’m financially more well off. In our day and age, it’s hard for someone to spend excessive money on meals on a regular basis. But all that said, just because you prefer to take it up the butt doesn’t mean you’re entitled to be treated like the “chick” in a relationship.
If that’s what the top wants guess it’s ok. I have found if they foot the bills, then they often feel like they have the right to tell you what to do. just take care of me in the bedroom and I am good
I do not like being a dependent.I pay my own way. I do not like feeling pressured into sex or feeling that I must have sex because you paid for my cocktail,meal, etc.
There have been exceptions.
Absolutely! Totally agree with Dan. As a top, I don’t want to paying for everything for the person I’m dating. I’m the kinda of guy who likes everything shared in half. If someone offers to pay for me great! I offset to leave the tip or vice versa. Bottoms who like to be paid for nah! Not my thing
I guess if your good looking and very young you may be able to get away with that kind of foolish attitude. You will find that as you get older and are no longer a pretty boy that if your attitude doesn’t change you will live a very lonely and relatively dateless life!
Wow! you have gone and opened a can of worms with this one. I understand where you are coming from with the whole idea of “tops” being the guy assumed controlling directing the sexual relationship, so why would this not transfer outside of the bedroom? I once was with this guy who like to be called “Boss” during sex. Well, if your gonna be “Boss” in bed…you might as well be “Boss” and pay the cost out in the street. Conversely though, do you as a bttm want to think of or be thought of as being “Paid for” during sex or any part of your relationship? How impersonal, superficial and demeaning is that? I’m cosigning Bob and young2by2 on this one. Good discussion topic. Thx.
Go Dutch. That way you know he’s in love with you and not your wallet. Top or bottom is irrelevant.
Well my opinion has been stated here in multiple times already, but being the devils advocate that I revel in someone has got to give a counter. Dave’s views have validity to them. We all here have struggled in our own personal ways for equality. If for Dave a symbol of that equality is to invoke traditional archetypes for his relationship, it’s his and his partners choice and right. It may not be right for me, but it’s right for them. And that’s all that matters really.
I do think a mistake has been made”” when two men get together, TWO men get together, neither one is a woman’ Top or Bottom””” The bullshit has to stop… Because a man gets fucked in HIS ass doesn’t mean you take care of him, dick for ass is a even trade between men””. I’m a top for a man bottom,, you get my DICK, I get you’re ASS point……….. If a man bottom thinks because he likes to get fucked by a man top, and the top has to pay, and the bottom likes dick’ The bottom needs to pay for the dick*** so quite playing games, you pay sometimes, and I’ll pay sometimes POINT….. Even Trade*** 🙂
This comes off as wildly selfish and ignorant. Associating sexual positions with gender roles is stupid and associating those with who pays is just as bad. If someone said this to me on our second date it would likely be our last.
The notion that the bottom is some version of a woman and should be treated accordingly is offensive. I’m a top and I love men. Just because a man opens up to me in no way makes him less of a man. I know some gay men embrace femininity and refer to themselves a “man pussy” etc. and that’s fine for them but guys with those kinds of issues aren’t going to find themselves in my bed anyway. Part of loving men, for me, is stalwart, masculine, equal partners who look me right in the eye. I’m honored and humbled when a man will let me mount him and do my monkey thang but the notion that makes him some kind of woman who should be treated differently than any other man reeks of homophobia to my ears.
I hate to be taken for a sugar daddy just because I’m an older top. If you can’t afford to pay your own way, stay home until you can get a job!
I have a rule: he who invites pays unless it’s discussed before hand that it’s dutch treat.
There is a difference between dating and being user-friendly.
You are not the “woman,” this is not 1952; most real women are more independent than you, this is just pathetic. Grow up and or.man up
I always assume we are splitting a check unless we discuss otherwise. If one of the two parties says, “Hey, I’d like to take you out and treat you to dinner and a movie”, then it’s different. One should never EXPECT someone else to pay. That DOES make you a princess.
You may be the bottom but you’re still a man. Now act like one and pick up the tab every once in a while. I like it equal, 50/50. I don’t keep track of who spends what. Sometimes I just know that it’s my turn to pay, or drive or do the grocery shopping. Same-sex relationships should be egalitarian in nature. Not one over the other. No pun intended on that last sentence.
Dave,
It is old school. And yes you are a princess. You expect to be treated like a Queen. I am a bottom totally and I usually pay 8 out of 10 times. Do you ever pay?
Steve :I do pay sometimes yes….
but if a dude suggest me to go eat, I expect him to pay.
It all depends on the relationship. If i want to pay i will, if my bf feels like paying, and has the money he pays for either all or part.
When I date a guy I want to be sure he’s fully certified in both departments because you never know what’s going to come a long. Don’t you hate when you want to go on a vacation with someone but they can’t go because they can’t pull their own weight?
I LOL at lots of comments on here. Perhaps it is the American way of saying I am independent that stick to many of your heads or perhaps many of you are just so unstable to be in a serious relationship. I had been in a great relationship for over 14 years. We created and shared one bank account and I am the one in charge of that account. When we went out and had food/ fun, I was the one that paid for the food. He took care of the phone bill, car insurance and sometimes some items in the house. I took care of the mortgage bill, utilities bill, and of course, occasionally a nice treat for my loved one. We were permanently separated when his car got into an accident 2 years ago =/… Have had 2 dates after that and no success. Perhaps the level of trust, mutual respect, finance etc. are very unstable in the gay world unfortunately.
I find the opposite.
Meet a black guy on this site, under the age if thirty with an above average size cock and you will soon learn that the majority of times they expect the bottom to pay, pay for everything including the sex
Being generous they call it
First I’m a bottom amd generally go out with older guys. They tend to take the bill which isn’t asked by me but if someone asks me out on a date it should be implied to have the asker to pay. Like if I were to ask someone out id pay.
Getting used to being asked and having the top pay for the bill can be a conditioned behavior.
looking to far into the matter as tops should bottoms should is just asking for a debate
Dave I agree with Almost everyone, “sexist, rude, old school…..etc” I’m not going to name call, that would be rude. I just feel completely totally opposite of you. FYI I’m a bi Top.
This goes beyond being sexist and archaic. This is just stupid.
Bottom or top is not a role forced upon anybody. It is a role chosen based on sexual satisfaction. Just because you enjoy the feeling of being fucked, does not entitle you to special financial treatment.
If your guy was forcing you to bottom, with the understanding that he would treat you to dinner, then identify yourself correctly: a prostitute.
Bills should be split or paid by the person who suggested going out.
Top or bottom doesn’t matter, you’re a man you have to pay. My dates, we usually argue about who gets to pay (we both want to).
The thought that this would even cross someone’s mind is offensive. And it’s people who even say stuff like “tops should pay for stuff and bottoms should be taken care of” that keep these dumb rules alive… If that was how it always was, then we might as well force all muscular guys to be tops and all slim dudes to be submissive bottoms… It’s just ignorant.
We are queer people… And as such shouldn’t in anyway design our relationships after those of our heterosexual counterparts. It just goes to show that despite how far we’ve believed we have come, the gay community isn’t really that advanced.
And to “John Doe”… There are plenty of other guys who ask for money. For you to single out any race and put everyone of them under an umbrella is simply foolish…
It’s as if I made a statement about how all older white men over the age of thirty often disregard boundries that some men of color put up (such as not being into white guys, or older men). It’s a generalization because it’s not true for all. The same goes for your statement.
Blog/Dave – You got the attention you wanted on this one! I’d agree with most other posts here in the sense that position has nothing to do with ‘who pays’. Even if it’s a ‘date’, the one who was asked should still offer to pay a portion; whether or not he does is immaterial. That’s my two sense worth!
I still have some trouble at times when another person and myself goes out to eat. To me if I invite you out as my guest then I will pay. If we both go together – but not on a date or anything other than just two people eating together – then I expect each person to pay their own bill. Its nice to be treated every now again but I think its better to be self sufficient and be able to pay your own way. Anyone would like to share their thoughts / responses?
I hope we as a community move away from these labels – top/bottom etc and stop putting ourselves in boxes.
RIDICULOUS! Any Btm who thinks the “top” is “in charge” is just a passive wimp! Sex is a 2 – way (or 3-way, 4-way) thing, with each party giving and getting what they want. If I want to get fucked hard, I demand it. No sex at all? MY DECISION!. Share the sex AND share the tab at dinner!
Whoever asks the other person out should pay. If not, then it’s nothing but a hook-up.
ummm im a bottom… I like to go dutch on dates usually… my best friend and I actually happen to take turns paying (he is straight though.), I would do that in any relationship though. I mean, its only money. Exceptions come in when someone is really financially struggling, then I just don’t expect them to cover something (though, if they are asking me out a bunch and expecting me to pay for everything all the time, I might have to look at them twice.)…
I like to say I am independently owned and operated. I don’t like feeling pressure like “oh since I covered dinner you give me a bj at least now” cause that’s happened before and I ended up thanking them for dinner, calling them an asshole for their post dinner game, and walking the 2 miles home.
I just don’t feel like I’m more of a woman, and expect to be treated like a woman just cause I’m a bottom.
Archaic thinking? It’s prehistoric. I enjoy going out to eat with a guy who argues with me about paying the bill. I appreciate thoughtful, selfless, successful men who don’t expect other men to pay because they (the freeloaders) are bottoms. I can’t help but think bottoms who want the tops to pay have some issues.
Beyond old school dude. You wind up giving your relationship the same qualities of a heterosexual relationship. top = man bottom – female. when it comes to paying, on a first date, split it unless either one of you feels compelled to offer the whole thing. Next check is on you. I think you are taking your sexual preference and making it more of a definition of yourself but I don’t think that’s a healthy identity. You essentially belittle yourself willingly beyond the bedroom where it actually matters about how a person treats you. I think that you obsess too much over these ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ labels as if there’s only one way to go about it. I would say that your ‘top’ and ‘bottom’ relationship is not as mainstream as you believe. Older men spoiling with money, YES. But those older men can be top bottom or versatile. If you’re dating a rich person that offers all the time, well ok…I don’t think I could personally do that. But there is no truth to the ‘kidding but not really’ that you said, only in your relationship’s dichotomy. This whole thread is essentially the same as “Ladies, do you like your man to pay for the date all the time?”
I’m older, financially secure and primarily a top and don’t mind picking up the check when I’m going out on a first date at all because I’m usually the one who asked the guy out, especially if the guy is still building his financial clout.
That said though, I’m nobody’s meal ticket. After the first couple of dates if I want to go somewhere nice I’ll pick up the check but on those nights where we’re hanging out he better pay for the pizza delivery or cook for me.
I’ve had to detail that protocol to a few younger guys I’ve dated that I liked, so that there’s no misunderstandings about where we stand. I usually screen the guys pretty well beforehand but on occasion you run into a guy who wants to be taken care of and that shit is annoying as hell. I don’t mind treating him well but he better damn well stand on his own too.
Very old school and a shame!
It’s all about equality…..
I am bottom and do not expect my partner to always pay.
Many marriages, relationships and love does not work for long now a days because of such expectations.
Whether it’s male, female, top or bottom, if any one keeps such expectations, the relationship does not work.
Those were the old days when head of the house was the only earning person and paying for all. We all are educated, mature people. We should be responsible for ourselves and not expect our partner to always pay.
In this bad economy time we all work hard and earn money. Then why only one role is expected to pay?
I am a man and I see why more and more men are into men than a women. Because women tries to be princess and bring drama into relationship. If we guys also do such drama then soon there will be no relationship, no love, no marriages.
As a bottom, I would also pay and contribute on bill time to time to Thank my man for taking care of me. It is a nice gesture to show that I do not love the wallet but love the nice time we spend together and I also care.
We are fighting for equal rights. Even paying a bill should be equal to both the persons irrespective of gender and role.
i am 100% top but my boy pays for everything even if it means an overseas trip, he proudly pays. it only shows how committed he is on me
I feel if the Top or Bottom invites the other out for dinner, then he pays. As a Top I tend to spring for check whenever I’am dining out with anyone. And if I’am being treated, then I feel ok with letting someone pick up the check. And then I’d ask to pay the tip. Unless I was getting some ass, at some point 🙂
That’s why I prefer versatile guys. Equally in bed and taking turn paying the bills. Sometimes I like to be pampered but I also like to give my guy a real treat and trix. The expectation is respect for each other and not taking advantage of the other generosity. And if paying in exchange for sex then the guy better make me moan with ecstasy.
What a faggy thing to say Dave. I always go dutch. Though whoever asked out should pay. In a relationship it should be equal though.
If a bottom ever tells me that we won’t be doing anything together again.
Any relationship i’m in; i want both parties to feel like we’re equals. Any guy that wants to be “treated/rewarded” because i screwed him won’t get a second date. If i wanted old fashioned and out of date rules for sex and who pays, i’d date a woman. Great thing about being gay; we can both be equals when it comes to money; regardless of who does what to whom.
I don’t believe in limiting myself sexually. Actually, I’m very annoyed hearing the term “top”, and “bottom”. Enjoy everything a man has to offer, and don’t limit yourselves. “Top” screams “all about me”. I think it’s being selfish. Lose the “fag hag” as well.
I don’t think we should define our personalities based on our sexual roles. That’s how society looks at us already “Tops”= the man in the relationship and “Bottoms”= the woman in the relationship. I have known men who are versatile and effeminate men who only top, in my opinion it should only matter how the guy feels. Many men are romantic and they want to pay to be generous or sweet it has NOTHING to do with their sexual position; nor should it.
I can’t seem to find a date, only guys that want to hookup and fuck me, which I oblige :).
I honestly have to say as a bottom, I would love it if the top dude would pay and take me out. It would make me feel really good about myself and I would definitely “pay it forward” to him later in the night if you catch my drift…
expecting someone to pay!!!! too many of your kind around!
Hell yeah the top should pay. Im a very attractive slim wm twenty something years old. I am subbmisve bttm, very talented, and have an extremely high sex drive, (i dont deny the ass when “he” wants irmt or where for that matter) That being said, any top im dating has a big dick and high sex drive/endurance as well. Since im the one getting fucked in the ass all the time and getting crammed on im not paying for dinner. Lol. Considering desert is my stomach full of cum in the car outside the restaurant. Im the one who sits to pee from now on and needs a plug in my ass all day, and rinses out daily just so my lover can bend me over anywhere he wants. No way am I or have I ever paid for dinner/drinks.
I don’t think sexual position should dictate who is going to pay the bill. Everyone likes to be treated to something as simple as a lunch every now and then. when I have dinner or lunch with a date (or with friends) I will pay and the next time we are out they usually reciprocate. Dave I have to assume that you make money by means of a job and/or as owner of this website….next time treat your cop and I am sure he will return the favor…in ways other than monetary. 🙂
So, if two guys are bottoms, who pays? If both guys are tops do they fight over the check? Ugh. Financial roles defined by sexual roles??? I’d kick the guy to the curb.
I totally agree with you Dave. I’m a bottom and if a top wants to be considered the husband then he pays. Team housewife!!!
No matter u r bottom or top .always do your shared equally. Especially your first date…leach and dignity is very thin line far between
Wow that’s really one sided and selfish.
I’m pretty sure whoever’s inviting foots the bill, but me and my boyfriend don’t really ever pay attention to it. If I got it I got, he’s got the tip. If he’s got it, I got the tip. But we’ve been seeing each other for 4 years now. I have been asked out before and had to pay for my own dinner which at that point was the end of that date for me. So I guess circumstances weigh in as well. So in conclusion I agree that breeder notions and values on chivalry, etc. DO NOT APPLY in a gay world, and are nontransferable.
I dumped a lot of guys because of that. Bottoms think that tops have to pay.If we are fucking you because you like it and we do too. Good relationship can only be mutual not otherwise. You are just a little asshole.