Speak Out : A Man With A Vagina?
(This post was sent to us by one of our members, it is the member’s opinion, not A4A’s opinion.)
I got into a heated on-line discussion about the trans-man who won the Mr. Gay Philadelphia. It seems like this person is calling himself a gay man yet still have women parts. I’m all for people being themselves but I seriously had to defend the fact that I like my men with a penis.
These persons can call themselves male, a man, a gay man, all they want but calling yourself a gay man means something different to other people. It means you are homosexual which in most basic terms means you are having sex with someone of the same sex.
I was told I was closed minded and shallow for not allowing myself to be open to have sex with a gay man with a vagina. I had to remind these people that my sexual orientation was not something I could turn on and off.
I was then asked why a penis was so important, if you lost your penis tomorrow would you still be a man. To which I replied, if I lost my penis and replaced it with a vagina then I would be a woman but if I lost my penis and did not replace it with anything I would still be a man.
Again, it’s me who had to defend my sexual orientation and what I define as a gay man. If you are calling yourself a gay man and you have a vagina and you have sex with men, gay men or not, you are having heterosexual sex.
Just more reason I believe the T needs to be taken out of LGBT and given their own T. Their goal is not our goal, asking gay men to have sex with the opposite sex to fulfill their life changes in not a gay thing. It’s anti-gay.
Before you start throwing transphobia at me, like I’ve said, I am not asking anyone to disclose anything about their genitalia, but I prefer my men with a penis.
Thoughts? Comments?
g skorich
I thought it was just me however, I feel the exact same way.
I agree. I want my sex partner to be all male. That means a cock and only a cock between his legs. I respect the transgender but it is a different lifestyles they prefer.
I agree with the writer. We have sex with the same gender that’s why we are homosexual. Having vaginal sex whether attached to a man or a woman is hetrosexual
I am a trans man and I have this discussion all the time. I find the older homosexual cis males to be more open minded versus the younger ones. Here’s the thing, you’re right, you like what you like. I’m so not offended if you were to say, “hey, I like penis so this may not work out.” To which I would say, well, I have a multitude of strap ons and stamina that doesn’t stop, but I totally respect your preference. That’s respect for both parties. I myself am open to other trans men and cisgender females, but I identify as a gay man because I prefer cisgender males. Preference is fine. How you treat a situation, no matter how you look at it is a matter of respect. The only issue I have with your post is that well sir, you really are close minded. I’m not saying go have sex with a trans man. I think more so I’d look into broadening your perspective of gender and sexuality. It’s definitely not black and white and well, as you said you defend and define your own sexuality. Please don’t try to impart your views of it upon everyone else though. I say be open minded enough to be perceptive to other ideas. You seem to be doing the thing most gay men do and focus entirely on the sexual aspect of it. I understand that a lot of you men think vaginas are icky and that’s okay. lol. But for real, a lot of you need to grow up about it. I’m not saying go stick your dick in one, just chill out cos it’s really immature. If you don’t like a man with a vagina, then please be respectful of him and his gender and politely decline.
The whole idea of “our” battle is not to encroach on your gay rights. I mean, trans people have only been there since Stonewall, but time and time again our rights get put on the back burner while the LGB gain victories(the fight’s not over, I realise, but that’s besides the point). All we really want is the same rights and respect as everyone else. Anyway, if you care to enlighten yourself on the issues, I recommend it. It would take me awhile to tell you all the reasons why your entire post is actually kind of douchey and reeks of ignorance versus willful stupidity, not really transphobic. Your language and ideas of things are really problematic, but it’s whatever. You like what you like, that’s fine. Just be respectful. I don’t care how you feel about my “lifestyle changes”, but at least to my face(and preferably behind my back if you are a decent human being)respect me as a man. That’s all you need to know really. Respect trans people and if you find their genitalia problematic, don’t sleep with a trans man. Man, this conversation feels really silly cos how many homosexual men here have had a similar conversation with a straight man? It’s funny really! 🙂
Totally agreed
While I find it interesting that we tend to blur gender identities and have no problem with it, I don’t think it’s fair to consider yourself male or female until you have made the transition. Until that point you are Trans—-in transition. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that and I know a fairly good chunk of people who find that to be an attraction. If you are female making the transition to male, calling yourself a “gay male” isn’t quite accurate and leads to confusion. We all expect when products are advertised as being “all beef” that they contain no other types of meat or filler. We can clearly make a decision as to what we want. I might find the product appealing but when I discover that it isn’t what it was purported to be, that doesn’t make me fillerphobic, it makes me upset that I wasn’t told the truth. Just as a size queen might be upset when they get home with a hunk with a bulge in his pants and finds out it’s a pair of extra long tube socks, I expect things to be as advertised. Any relationship or attraction must be based on honesty if we expect it to progress. A gay male who goes out with a straight woman and leads her on is viewed as being dishonest just as a lesbian who goes out with a straight male and leads him on would also be viewed as dishonest. It follows that a trans individual who has not followed through with the transition might want to get to know someone BEFORE revealing their status but shouldn’t be upset when that person indicates their preference back to them. We can’t have it both ways. Honesty is key to all relationships/friendships. Most people condemn those who are HIV+ individuals who fail to reveal their status and while I don’t think it’s necessary to immediately walk up to someone and say Hi my name is _____ and I’m HIV+, I think that when you reach the point where you are considering intimacy, there must be some honesty. That same consideration MUST be given in relation to genitalia. Truth in packaging and allow the “consumer” to honestly choose what they want to do :). Just another person’s opinion. 🙂
I don’t care if a guy has a or is or not I’m more interested in his ass.. I’ve been with a tranny before be he still had his penis I asked is he going to change that he said no he love his penis he didn’t want to part with it. If you have a vagina your a woman not a man anymore you can’t claim to be both when your really something else..
Uhhh…if a person has a penis, then they are a guy. If a person has a vagina, then they are a girl. Come on now. We learned this basic stuff as children. Until she gets a penis, then she is simply a female dressed as a man. A drag king or whatever the proper term is.
I know its very awkward and I don’t know how trans-gender would fit in? Its like a totally new orientation. I personally wouldn’t want to have a man with a vagina. Its too weird for me. Heterosexual men have sexual freaky interests. For example ,I have a heterosexual male friend who is not gay, but he likes T-girls.I asked him do you realize you are fucking a body with a penis between it’s legs right? I find it strange that he thinks gay sex is disgusting , but he would do a T-girl up the anus and has a penis!? I told him if you are having sex with a T-girl, you would also have to please her/him both orally and anally. It can’t be one sided. I point out to him he is a contradiction of himself when it comes to gay men having sex. Believe me there are freaky heterosexuals out there that do this kinda stuff and they have the audacity to criticize us of what we enjoy sexually with other men! The bisexual men would love jumping on a man with a vagina that is for sure! They are as freaky as the heterosexual men are! Bottom line is their sexual nature is over looked and us gay pure bloods are always scrutinized of our sexual activities. Heterosexual and bisexual men are hypocrites in their own way. Their way is not the pure form of male homosexual bonding.
It’s totally OK that you are a gay man who likes your men with penises. I do too!
But I don’t understand what you are upset about. Is in that Lou Cutler, a transman won the the Mr. Gay Philadelphia contest? Did you see him? He’s HOT! What’s more, it is clear that he had to work EXTRA hard, sacrifice EXTRA effort in order to obtain his physical presence. More power to him!!
And while he may not have a dick he definitely has the BALLS necessary to get up before a crowd of gay men and women and allow himself be judged, knowing that there would be people in the audience who would argue that he doesn’t have “the right”. Bullshit. He’s EARNED the right.
Somehow as a people we got to get past this desire to limit people’s potential because of their sex, skin color, nationality, sexual orientation, or gender identity. That’s all I’m saying.
Congratulations Lou Cutler!
I would have to agree. The same goes with Chaz Bono. Just because you chop off your tits but leave the pussy, it does not make you a man.
Hell, there are plenty of men with vaginas, and unfortunately most of them are on this site. (They certainly act as though they have wide gaping vaginas).
Gays are the last group who should be holding to such rigid boundaries on sexuality. People are attracted to what they are attracted to, but it is not our job to label another’s sexuality or relationship. If a gay man falls in love with a transman, in my book he is just as gay as ever.
What about Joe Mangina, the masculine guy who had penis inversion surgery, still looks like a very hairy butch man, but now has a mangina? and it looks damn real. He even comes while having sex…google it!
If I wanted pussy, I’d be a straight guy. Sorry, but I love cock!
I completely disagree with the author of this essay. I, for the first time, fucked a vagina this past week. I had sex with a female to male transgendered person. Everything about him was male except for his genitalia. He was as much a man as me. He just happens to have a vagina. I loved it. Loved it I tell you. Some of the best sex ever. And I’ve had plenty of good sex. I was fucking a man. And I’m as gay as they come. I would not have been as turned on if I were with a female. I loved it because I was having sex with a GAY man, who just happens to have a vagina.
So, author of this essay, do not pass judgement on something you know nothing about. You are a bigot and a hypocrite if you do.
First, let me say that I agree with the author.
It’s important to note that there is a difference between gender and sex. Gender is between the ears, sex is between the legs. When those two things align, we call that “cisgender.” When they do not, trans comes into the equation. Sexual orientation is just that: which *sex* you prefer. It would then stand to reason that those who are homosexual are attracted to others with the same physical sex. Sorry to all of the transmen, but that means that cisgender homosexual males are not interested. This does not make us close minded, it means that we are simply not interested.
My problem with trans inclusion into the lgb community is that, if sex and gender are two different concepts, why are we trying to equate them? The movements, communities and goals may overlap, but they are distinct and not synonymous.
I wonder how many heterosexual men, when asked if they’d sleep with a pre-op female-to-male transsexual, would be grossed out because they aren’t attracted to the male aspects of the person, ie bone structure, clothes, style, any body hair from hormone replacement therapy, etc, even though there is a vagina in the mix. Yet, several homosexual men here are grossed out about the vagina but are totally ignoring the male aspects of the individual.
In no way am I saying someone should go have sex with someone they aren’t attracted to, including someone with a vagina when you are attracted to penis. But please realize that there is more to an individual than what’s between their legs. How many times have homosexual men fantasized about getting a straight man to have sex with them, using lines like, “a hole is a hole”. Obvious, if you aren’t willing to have sex with a trans-man who has a vagina, then a hole is NOT a hole. But, that’s fantasy. Reality is, there’s more to what makes us male than just the penis between our legs or the chromosomes in our cells. Please respect others as they identify that in themselves.
To be clear, I support the trans community and consider myself an ally, but I draw the line at a community of sexual minorities being co-opted by a community of gender minorities. They are not the same, and collecting under the same banner is only going to cause confusion.
This is going to be a long response but this persons argument is flowed and is a prime example of the toxicity the exist within the LGBT community. Also I wonder how a conversation about a trans man winning a competition turned into his sex life and beliefs.
-“These persons can call themselves male, a man, a gay man, all they want but calling yourself a gay man means something different to other people. It means you are homosexual which in most basic terms means you are having sex with someone of the same sex.”
If this statement was true then gay men and women that enter a heterosexual relationship and get married are not gay, but straight. But we all know just because you sleep with someone of the opposite sex doesn’t make you 100% heterosexual. The fact of the matter is that homosexuality DOES NOT mean that you are having sex with someone of the same sex. It mean that you are and can be sexually and emotionally attracted and attached to someone of the same sex. Sexual orientation is more than the physical aspect of sex.
– “I was then asked why a penis was so important, if you lost your penis tomorrow would you still be a man. To which I replied, if I lost my penis and replaced it with a vagina then I would be a woman but if I lost my penis and did not replace it with anything I would still be a man.”
So I will just pose the question, if a baby boy was born with ambiguous genitalia, and doctors believed that the baby boy is a baby girl, and did assignment surgery to give him more defined genitalia that associated with female is the baby now a female just because of their genitalia?
-“If you are calling yourself a gay man and you have a vagina and you have sex with men, gay men or not, you are having heterosexual sex.”
I am curious to see a heterosexual mans option on this statement. Because I am pretty sure that they would say if they look like a man, talk like a man, and think like a man, then they are a man and since said person is a heterosexual man it doesn’t matter that the person might have a vagina. What is in between your legs doesn’t determine your gender identity.
-“Just more reason I believe the T needs to be taken out of LGBT and given their own T. Their goal is not our goal, asking gay men to have sex with the opposite sex to fulfill their life changes in not a gay thing. It’s anti-gay.”
Anti-gay is a term that is used to deny anyone and everyone that isn’t HETEROSEXUAL equal rights and protections under the law plain and simple.
Being gay isn’t all about nor just about sex, or is there a black and white line between sexuality and gender. Yes genetically this trans-man is a women because he has xx chromosomes, but he has taken the steps to transitioning and the fact it gender reassignment surgery is not cheap and can cost 40-50 thousand dollars, and it isn’t something you can decided one day to do an get an appointment the next week. As a gay man if I was attracted to a man and found out that he was female to male and hasn’t finished reassignment, what is or isn’t between is legs wouldn’t be an issue. Because believe it or not be a gay man isn’t all about sex.
I feel that people have there own opinion the matter is what was there original sex they can be teams and a male but some guys like that so they can walk with a girl looking guy. I like dick so ima stick to my males
A man with a penis…is a man. A “man” with a vagina is not a man…”he” is a woman. Simple to understand. For all the arguments about what makes a man a man and a woman a woman…it boils down to biology. Now your brain may be telling you something different and that is where we get into the whole transgender issue. If you are a man but feel inside you are a woman..find..there are solutions for that and vice versa…woman feeling like a man inside. The post had nothing to do with accepting someone because of their gender identity….but clarifying what one should identify as and present themselves to be. This is one of the major issues of the entire gay movement…we endlessly argue over this kind of crap instead of focusing on real issues that affect the LBGT community and it’s relationship with the rest of society. And don’t even let me get started on the gay pride parades with guys prancing around in thongs, or dressed like clowns….hoping the rest of society accepts them. I’ve got news for you: most of society today could give a rats ass about someones sexual orientation…just go live your life and stop throwing up in their faces. I’m not saying to hide what you are…but their is a time and place for everything (and I’m not saying let’s go back in the closet…that’s not healthy either).
I feel the same way I am a gay man and I am ONLY interested in other men! If someone is FTM that is their business. But I do not see these people as gay men.
the “universal” test of femalehood/womanhood is the ability to become pregnant and bare offspring/children…CAN TRANSGENDERED INDIVIDUALS MEASURE UP!!!
I think it matters if the label is being used in a contest. To make competition fair, there are rules. (I’m somewhat curious as to the exact wording of the Mr. Gay Philadelphia rules are.) I don’t think gender self-identification is valid in contests. Should a person with OEM penis be allowed to compete in the Olympics as a woman if he/she self-identifies as a woman, honestly intends to complete the transition, AND dresses and acts as a woman? I say, “no” and would expect the vast majority to agree.
Is it okay to cross-dress and use the restrooms your assumed gender? (I’d be okay with it unless unknowing person catches on and objects.) (sexual harassment is defined by the accuser.)
Legally a person should be considered and treated by the gender on their birth certificate until they have completed all the requirements and paperwork.
Well, my comment is to all the idiots on here that call themselves open minded… The idiots that says two tops can have a good sexually expirience as well as two bottom can …????? Then for you idiots this should not be any different !!.. You should embrace this in the same way!!. Lol.. Just goes to show the stupid backward contradicting Morans on here Personally I think trannys should be with other trannys just like top dudes should be be bottom dudes … NUF SAID!!!
My brain knows that chromosomes make someone male or female, and the surgery can help “reassign” someone’s physical sexuality to match their mental sexuality. But if a woman wants to call herself a man but keep her vagina, she is lying to herself and the rest of the world. As far as I’m concerned, she is merely a cross-dresser or drag KING. Just as a man who calls himself a woman but keeps his penis and testicles is simply a cross-dresser or drag QUEEN. As a gay man I DO require that my sex partner have a penis. I am no more interested in a man with a vagina than I would be in a woman with one. That’s my 2 cents.
gay man cock and balls no cock and ballwell your not a gay man who knows what the hell you are
I agree with the writer of this article. It is thoughtfully and well written.
The entire gender debate has gotten so absurd and ridiculous. Whatever genitals and internal organs you were born which determines your gender whether you feel like like that gender or not, that’s what Im going with. All this other nonsense is just nonsense. Trans this, gender identity that, it’s all just getting out of hand. Now I just saw a new made0up term “cisgender” which, after having to look it up, is so incredibly bizarre. Where did that come from?! I think my head is going to explode.
Sorry, but if they have a Vagina, they are a woman. If they have a dick, they are a man.If the one who has a vagina wants to look like a man,okay that’s fine,but he-she is still a woman(dressed like a man).Like the one poster said”If I wanted pussy, I’ld be a straight guy”
I’m digusted that this was posted. Happen to know HIM and HE is obviously more of a man than the douchebag who wrote this. I’m very disappointed in A4A for even entertaining this asshole
Yet again, another short coming of the “gay” community. A dick doesn’t make the man, the man makes the man. Just because you don’t like his female-assigned parts, doesn’t make him less of a man. I’m a CIS-gendered man saying this. You can’t tell someone that what they identify as is wrong. PERIOD. It’s their right as a human being to represent themselves as whatever they want. It’s absolutely sad to hear a person of a one queer community dissing another queer community.
The gay male community has soooo many set backs it ridiculous how much the other queer communities have surpassed us. We have no right to say who isn’t a man and who is, because by the standard of THE REST OF THE WORLD, we aren’t men. Because we suck dick and take it up our ass, to them we have lost what is considered our “manhood”.
The hate that generates from gay dudes is just as disgusting as some bigots. Hell, many have become the new bigots and simply are ok with it… How sad…
this comes down to basic science. as kids we were taught that if you have a penis, you’re a male and if you have a vagina, you’re female. that is true. until you get a penis you are a male, that’s what makes you a male, A PENIS. you can look, act, behave, dress and what not as a dude, but till you have a penis, you are still female, same thing goes for those men who want to be women, until you have a vagina you are male. now this is my opinion and if you want to throw shade cause of it then oh well, I’m not being closed minded. though I do agree with a lot of other people in here, I also feel that the B&T in lgbt do need to be taken out and given their own groups. they are not the same as gays or lesbians. everyone in my eyes have equal rights and should be treated as equals but those 2 letters suggest a lot of negativity towards people who don’t believe you can choose to be gay or str8 or that you are born in the wrong body.. the T is not a problem for me cause I see a person for as a person so to me it doesn’t matter if you was born a man trapped in a woman’s body or vice versa. you just a person to me and will be treated with respected. the issue to me is the letter B in LBGT.. THATS WHERE THE PROBLEM LIES, but I’ll save that for another posting on here when that topic arrives.
noel, as much as I love dick and ass, a strap-on does nothing for me. I want to feel it throbbing, taste the pre-cum, hear the man moan as I’m blowing him. a strap on does none of that and in matter of fact it turns me off so bad that it kills me horniness faster than a bunch of drag queens running in high heels to a rupaul concert. as far as sex toys go Noel, I’m sorry but I don’t use them, hell I don’t even have a dildo (again it does nothing for me).
I will say this I seen and heard some supposedly str8 men sit there and say they not gay cause they are having sex with a T-girl. again this goes back to my original paragraph. until you get a vagina you are a male and if you sleep with a male, YOU ARE GAY!!
lastly theres a difference between being a male and being a man.
a penis just makes you a male and a man somewhat.
a man stands by his convictions and regardless what people say, he stays true to who he is.. but sorry I prefer 100% all USDA real man, and not one who is 50% USDA man.. sorry but I agree with the writer(and a few other folks as well)..
Wow… some of these posts are scary in how unaware and intolerant people can be — even in these changing times. Others show clear evidence of self-delusion and hypocrisy. (I’ll leave it to you to identify to whom I am referring!)
How many gay men will routinely state that they are “into straight men” for one reason or another?…. and how is that significantly different from a trans-man into non-trans men?
I agree that the concept of gender identity is not necessarily the exact same thing as the concept of sexual identity… But they’re really not all that different:
– being gay means needing to see the OTHER gender (from the one you’re SUPPOSED TO SEE) on the other side of the bed in the morning;
– trans means needing to see the OTHER gender (from the one you’re SUPPOSED TO SEE) on the other side of the MIRROR in the morning
Not to be flippant, but the point is that we really ARE in the same boat — we see our sexual/gender roles somewhat differently from the “majority”… and we do not deserve to be treated callously or unjustly because of it.
FWIW: I have been with trans partners before. As a pansexual male, it has never bothered me.
My commonly used description of pansexuality helps in this case: “my attraction to you is because of who you are and how well you play; not what equipment you bring to the ball field!”
Funny how so many of us ask for tolerance for our own differences, but fail to be tolerant of those who are different from us in other (if similar) ways.
Some of us should be more understanding, for we are truly throwing stones in glass houses!
HAPPY INDEPENDENCE DAY to everyone in the USA!
HAPPY FEAST DAY to Christians around the world!
HAPPY REPUBLIC DAY to my special friends in the PHILIPPINES!
Actually how hard did this dude have to work to look manly? Most trans-men have an upper hand as they’re on large doses of testosterone which is what fuels muscle building, helps define them as well, plus also helps with the whole full think head of hair… most FTM also end up having chest sculpting surgery to help cover the scares so really I don’t find this dude to be considered as “Mr. Gay” anything as he does not represent what it is to be a “real” gay male.
I find it out to see a hot fit guy with a vagina. I met one didn’t get to have sex but was just as much a guy as me. Would love a chance to have sex with a guy like that ill be so turned on fucking a guy and not worry about getting in his hole.
There is SO much more to gender identity, homosexuality, and being “gay” than sex. Like so many in the political right wing, many of us have to work to get past the sexual act when it comes to defining people and thinking of people as whole individuals (who may or may not have sex). If someone thinks of themselves as “male”, I dont care what’s between their legs. I don’t mind calling someone with a vagina “him” if that’s what they prefer. Whether or not I want to have sex with “him” or “her” (and how we might go about it) is up to us to work out. Labels are so confining and never adequate. Get over the labels. Loosen up if you expect others to also loosen up about YOUR sexlife.
This is the biggest pile of garbage I’ve read on A4A, and that’s saying a lot. Even sadder is the number of commenters that agreed with the poster.
I just don’t understand why the author worries too much about the titles,does that really matter? And if u don’t like or you not agree what this guys do with their bodys what the f…… I just don’t understand how this ppl bring this subjects to an open discussion when it’s not even important get a life man.
NO!!! I will even go further and say they are still women! I know a trans guy(FTM) and he is a really cool guy, but one thing he does that PISSES me off is he truly thinks he is a str8 man! When he hangs with me and my boyfriend and we start talking about gay sex between men (or pointing out hot guys in a public place) he always acts like he’s bothered by it (we never get sexually specific or vulgar), he just acts uncomfortable like you’d expect a homophobic str8 man would act! Hormone drugs and a double mastectomy DO NOT make a man. I respect him and always refer and think of him as a “man” (he looks like one after all), but when he gets to acting 100% str8, I wanna scream YOU’RE A LESBIAN!!!
I don’t have a problem with trans men at all. I consider them men regardless of what’s between their legs. It seems a lot of gay cis men, like most cis people don’t understand that gender is a separate thing from a person’s sex. The gender you are is not determined by your sex. Because of this, a trans man is 100% correct in identifying himself as a gay man if he is attracted to men. The writer here seems to suffer from the same condition that most people on this site have. There’s a complete lack of consideration and definitely an undercurrent of disdain towards trans men. Something else that amazes me is that for some reason the lgb community seems to have an inability to see that the trans fight for equality is at the center of the entire issue, for all of us. The straight world doesn’t hate us because we have sex with the same sex. It’s because by doing so we challenge the very rigid gender roles straight society imposes. That’s why gay men are constantly defending their masculinity, why straight guys and girls insult/joke about us being girls, why so many gay men won’t even admit they’re gay. Because they think we aren’t actually men, at least not really. It has nothing to do with whether or not we have penises and every thing to do with the fact that as far as they’re concerned all men should want women. All women should want men and anything that challenges that is a threat. All you’ve done by posting this is point out the fact that you’re just like all those straight people who fight us in our fight for equality. You believe that you are included in the definition of what a man is and these people who are different than you and your idea of manhood should be excluded from that. Your attraction aside, you shouldn’t belittle somebody and insult their identity just because you wouldn’t fuck them.
If you haven’t changed your DNA/chromosomal structure, no matter how you alter or butcher your physical form, you’re still whatever gender you were born as, period.
Why is ‘cunt’ now considered the ultimate dirty word? It’s just as sexually defining as ‘cock’. Is it a mere post feminist sentiment & attitude? Your thoughts, please.
Wow.. Marry me
Doesn’t it depend on our chromosomes? Not genitalia? In the end it’s still a man having sex with a man.
We need to get along better. For gays that means no more ignorant “if you have a dick you’re a man, a pussy you’re a woman” bullshit. And for the trans* that means not freaking the fuck out if someone says tranny or adds an ‘ed’ to transgender by mistake. So trans folks, stop biting the hands of your allies and gays, be better allies.
That said, I’d certainly try having sex with a trans person. The fact that I don’t date means I wouldn’t risk not enjoying penises still.
I agree with Micah. I do not believe, the God makes mistakes(Gonna get whipped for mentioning God). Society makes mistakes for not seeing, and loving each human as what and who they are. This site is about sex, which is hot, but many on here are looking for the same thing in which society condemns us. Male/Female, some of us have been taught by society to be one or the other. The God never makes mistakes. We do; therefore, because we are taught, I believe, try to fix things to become more acceptable.
Im with the author!
Come people what the fuck is wrong here???
WE LIKE PENIS!! Who wants to fuck a vagina…. certainly not me!
I also agree that ANY Mr. Gay anyplace should be a REAL MAN not some woman who wants to be a man with … lets be frank here…. an odiferous and at times bloody vagina? How can some one (in my oppinion) lie about the fact that they are a woman who looks like a man except that she /he /it hasnt had the add-a-dick-to-me yet?? This totally repulses me!
The trans gender people should not indentify with gay men and women because they are neither!!!!!!!!
I have to say – I Agree 100%.
I feel exactly the same way…… BRAVO!!!!!!!!
Gender and orientation are two different things. But if you like your gay men with dicks, that’s fine, too.
If we are gonna get politically correct then why are we fighting to marry other men? I’m gay and I got sick reading some of these replies.
I never understand the claim that LG and B and T have different goals. We all want:
— an end to the male/female requirement in marriage law
— an end to sexual orientation discrimination in the workplace
— an end to bullying and shaming
Yes, the T folks probably have some special needs regarding health care. So do many gay men.
Where’s the chasm between us?
Well I have to say I do agree with the author that that is his opinion. But as a more open-minded gay male, I think it’s hot! I think any variation on the dick to dick or dick to mouth or dick to ass theme is a fresh hot option within the gay male world. We have become just as binary thinking as the heterosexual world when we decide that we have the right to determine who gets to be included in the boys club and who does not. Gender identity is a personal issue and sexual orientation is just as much a personal issue. If a human being declares that they are a gay male, their body parts and the opinion of people like the author do not make that untrue. I guess being a gay man born in the 50s gives me some perspective on tolerance. This seems to be lacking in the younger generation who did not have to struggle as much. Entitlement can be a closet of inflexibility.
I have to agree with most of the people on here. I am a gay man so I want my partner to have a penis. I could not be with a transman. I don’t think it is wrong to say that but I don’t think you have to be rude to transmen. A few of my friends had this very discussion after watching a documentary on Buck Angel. I think we share the same goal of tolerance from everyone but I don’t feel we are the same. But we don’t have to be.
I have had heterosexual friends come to me to answer their questions about transgender because of LGBT phrase. I am not an expert so I have told them it is what gender the person identifys with. Even though I do not think I could have a sexual relationship with a transman I think it is a shame there is this level of intolerance & ignorance within our community.
A man has a penis. No man has a vagina. If they wanna be considered a man, get the full sex change. Until then, if you want to look like a man thats fine but you still a woman.
Incredibly offensive post, endorsed by A4A, and supported by a bunch of disgustingly ignorant people in the comments. No, A4A, just because you lead with a disclaimer does not mean you aren’t endorsing it by posting this kind of hate speech.
Trans people started the LGBT rights movement at Stonewall. Out and proud trans women have been fighting this battle longer than any of you. And, newsflash, trans people can be gay, lesbian, and bi. Yet we are excluded from many LGB spaces because our sexualities are deemed invalid by people who should be our allies, just because of our trans status.
Being trans does not make me less of a man. I earned my manhood, and that makes me more a man than half of you on here. I am a man who is attracted to other men, making me gay. The men I have sex with are also gay (or bi). I don’t sleep with straight men, because straight men don’t sleep with other MEN. Get it? It’s not that hard.
Everyone is entitled to their preferences, and not wanting to have sex with a trans guy is one thing. But when you shout your preferences from the rooftops as if they are gospel, stripping an entire community of their identity because you don’t think they’re allowed to identify as men until they reach some arbitrary criteria that you’ve created, you’re a douchebag.
WOW! I actually thought the gay community was more enlightened than the vast majority of these posts would indicate. I am a gay man and have been trying to educate myself about transgender issues. I do believe that LGBT rights are inseparable. They are basic human rights that, if we could secure the rights I believe we are all due, allows each of us to define our own gender and sexuality as our own natures tell us is right.
Is a trans man with a vagina a gay man? If he knows himself to be a man then he is, regardless of the plumbing he was provided at birth. If he wants to have sex with other men then he is gay. In my mind, a trans man with a vagina could certainly be a gay man, whether he fits your standard is irrelevant. There are plenty of people that wouldn’t classify a gay man as a man at all. Let’s not be as ignorant or intolerant.
I have to say, I’m attracted to the gender, not the sex as much. In my mind, if you can top, you can fuck a transman. Bottoming for a transman would be more difficult, but I’ve been surprised too many times by guys who stimulated me in unexpected ways (e.g. oral only guys)to rule anything out. The guy above is fucking HOT. I’d be on that like white on rice.
First I use to be married…second if you got a vagina you are a woman ir-regardless of how u think of yourself. No cunt needs to be going to hard core gay dating services for your peep show. Nor competing in male competitions just because you think of yourself as a man. Until you got some meet swinging between your legs you are a bonafide cunt. Lesbians are riding on the shoulders of the gay homosexual shoulders who have taken the brunt of the storm for retributions against homosexuals. You are not a man you are a woman at the end of the day. Lipstick on a pig is still a pig. Stay the hell off our websites and stay the hell out of our hard core porn bars with dancers. Your presence –unless you lead by example–is unwelcome. You still bring the traditional values of gold digging cheap leeching vaginally empowered hypocritic bitching peep show seeking cunt.
I don’t see how they were allowed to be pulled along with us… And am not defending them. They were born with dicks and the right chromosomes, they need therapy not an operation
I have trans friends. I’m a gay man. I’m attracted to other gay men. I was married for many, many years before I got the divorce and subsequently figured it all out came out. A trans person with a vagina is not a gay man nor is the trans person a man. Period. Wishing it true does not make it true. When the transition is complete, then OK, call yourself a man if you have a constructed “penis”. But don’t throw this BS at me about not trying it… I did try it. Wishing one had an elephant trunk does not make one an elephant. I get that many trans people are in a tough spot. But their tough spot does not change reality. How many people would agree with a black person that they’re white simply because he/she wished they were white? Or a white person who wished they were black? The whole concept is ridiculous. And if I were a gay man who lost a “Mr. Gay” contest to a trans person without a penis who has been pumped full of T to make the change, I’d be mighty pissed. And in case you dummies are not aware, yes, the person might have worked “hard” to get the body, but the T did a helluva lot of it too. That’s why that shit is banned in most sports. Hello!
Way to go, Rod! Not to seem crass, but that is how those two sets of parts were designed to interact, so I’m quite confident it was a spectacular experience for you. Glad that you had the opportunity.
To anyone who believes that sex and gender are exclusive traits, let me direct your attention to the disgusting overuse of the term, “masculine,” in online profiles. Now, since “masculine” implies an exaggerated expression of gender (we use the term “male” to describe chromosomal sex), clearly the majority of folks ARE attracted to a gender, as opposed to whatever bits of meat are attached to a person. It’s a matter of overcoming a cognitive bias when the (generally not exposed) genitals don’t line up with the gender of the person. Some people, as Rod above can attest to, are able to do that. Some can’t.
Whether you can or you can’t, it’s not fair to anyone else (or to yourself) to suggest that your limitations, however broad they may be, define anyone except for you.
This is more directly applicable to those in agreement with the idea that transgendered people are a separate “class” of individuals from homosexuals:
Sex and gender are inextricably linked concepts. Were they not, I suspect that we would see far fewer people electing to transition from one sex to the other, because they would be accepted as members of the gender with which they identified regardless of appearance. Hopefully, this will change over time, because it IS a false association, but we’re all products of the idea promoted by educational and social institutions that a penis makes a man (and a bigger penis makes a man more manly), and a vagina makes a woman (and a bigger vagina… is better for childbirth? I don’t know – ).
Suggesting that anyone be excluded from our community, as if you have the knowledge or moral authority to speak for anyone but yourself, is nauseatingly offensive to me. For you to then clarify your support for people who you feel are members of a separate group is, to me, as insincere as it gets. How, exactly, is being a transgendered person any different from being gay, lesbian, bisexual, queer, questioning, or any of the alphabet-soup of other denominations? Better yet, does a man who loses/is missing his penis/testicles (by means other than sex reassignment surgery) cease to be a man?
Explain it to me, because it would seem to me that sexual orientation has as much or more to do with self-perception of gender (“I am a ____, and I am attracted to ____.”) as it does with the objects of one’s attraction. Is a pre-operative trans-female a homosexual until, in a stunning display of surgical finesse, those dangly gay bits are origami’d and tucked away into straight parts? You do realize how ludicrous that is, right? When the perception of self in relation to the object of attraction differs from what is socially acceptable, there is no material difference if it’s a homosexual man, homosexual woman, heterosexual transman, heterosexual transwoman, or bisexual whichever (both is both is both), they deserve equal respect and protection. Not separate, not equivalent, but equal.
Transgendered people have been around as long as there have been people – I promise they’re nothing even remotely new. Because their rights to liberty and the pursuit of happiness are threatened by the same people who want to restrict cisgendered homosexual and bisexual folks’ same rights, they’re part of the club. In fact, the only reason our little club’s as exclusive as it is, is because everyone else HAS recognition of their natural/”inalienable” rights, even if they haven’t achieved absolute parity with the Standard Hetero White Man. If women or people of color were still fighting for legal protection the way we are, I daresay you wouldn’t be able to create an abbreviated term for the coalition which would form. We’d be the Voltron of human freedom, an unstoppable force for social justice.
We stick together because we suffer together; each different perspective strengthens every other, and provides an avenue toward the better world we all want. None of our progress has been achieved alone; suggesting that we’re not in this together, and that some people just don’t belong makes the person doing so anathema to the group. For shame. I’m embarrassed FOR you.
NOEL – i appreciate your comments and agin, these are my thoughts and how i feel, i am not trying to place anything on anyone else. let people be people. as far as the closed mindedness you say i have. again i say to you as a gay man, this is what i know and jus because a trans man with a vagina calls themselves gay does not mean i suddenly want to try vagina. it seems to be easy for trans-men to say that us gay men should be more open, my parents told me that when i told them i was gay, that i should try women to make sure. i wonder why sexual orientation suddenly becomes a choice when it suits our trans gendered friends
I am actually shocked reading that a lot of the comments agree with the writers opinion. I feel as if this is Trans-phobic… So what if he is Mr. Gay whatever… are you sleeping with him.. no? Then you need to shut up. I prefer my men to have a penis… sexually; however I think that its awesome that this gentleman won, whether or not he has a penis, vagina, or no genitalia at all.
the penis doesnt really make a man a man, its his raw masculinity, his mannerism, the way he carries himself. Doing the right thing and being a respectful person. If he acts , walks and talk like a “man” , had a snatch, i could be into that. I am a gay all the way guy. not str8 or bi, but gay.
How many times have we seen a guy with big dick but was very fem?
Guess point is , like Hetros, we gays come with different beliefs, fetishes, turn ons and freedom. who are we to say if he is gay , str8 trans, bi or a whole new breed of sexuality. lets all fuck and let fuck. dont get upset and cry fowl if this guy doesnt fit your perception of a gay man
If a guy looks like a guy, sounds like a guy, smells like a guy, feels like a guy…. To me he’s a guy. If he has a vagina instead of a penis, that’s interesting and sexy. I’m as gay as there is, and i love the taste and feel of a man’s dick…. have no interest at all in sex with any women, but I would equally love to give pleasure to a man if he had a vagina instead. I dont know what that says about me….
Totally agree the person is not a gay guy. They are a transexual who is in the process of switching, from my understand the bottom surgery to turn a women into a male is very drastic and cost a lot. I lived with a transexual male to female for over 3 years, and even after all that time I still believe that Trans needs to be separated from the gay and lesbian agenda. Because if you follow thru with the logic most of them end up being “straight”
While I agree to a point, what about a morphodite? I went to high school with a guy that was in every way a male, except behind his penis he also had a vagina! I have known 3 such men in my life time. The guy I went to high school withh ended up having surgery and becoming a full out woman, but the other two never had any kind of surgery, and remained as they was born. One of them identified as gay, and the other straight. So would a guy with both sex organs be ruled out as well?
When it comes to someone who is Transgender, you need to realize you’re talking about who they are, not what they have. That’s the entire point of the term Transgender. No, you shouldn’t have to defend what you like when it comes to physical aspects of another person. I’m a cis gender homosexual male and I prefer the same. I’m also not transphobic for having that preference the same as I’m not heterophobic for not liking vagina. It’s that simple. However, the person you’re talking about in your open letter is not any less of a man than you or the rest of the men posting on this thread. That is not a woman in drag. That is a man, no matter what is going on downstairs.
I’m ok with pre-op (or no op) trans persons calling themselves gay. It doesn’t offend me but deep down inside I don’t necessarily agree with it. I think if a trans person wants to identify themselves as a man that is perfectly fine and don’t mind that. The problem is really the term gay. I’m bisexual and in the cis world, the “real man/woman” debate is a problematic topic. Its clear that the only thing that qualifies a man to be a man is having a penis. Again, if a FTM trans person has a penis I’d be more than happy to call them a gay man. But if they do have a vagina and even consider using their vagina, I’d have a bit of an issue calling them gay. If I have sex with someone who looks like, acts like and in all platonic considerations IS a girl but has all of the anatomical characteristics of a male, I’d still be having gay sex. Vice versa if it was all of the characteristics of a man except the anatomical ones. But this is just my opinion. I’m happy a trans-person won an award regardless of their title.
I have to agree with Micah, he has put it the best:
Gender is mental
Sex is physical
By this logic the orientations have been given a smoother gradient between that “black and white”. You could be a male with a vagina and attracted to men (gay or otherwise) but it boils down to this: your gender is male, your sex is female, and your orientation is ultimately heterosexual.
Same situation but you’re attracted to females (again, gay or otherwise) you’re gender is still male, sex is still female, but sexual orientation is homosexual. I believe this is the easiest way to see things because it reaches a compromise between this argument; it’s the best gray area between the black and white sides of this debate.
Moreover, I have never thought of this issue and after reading all comments and doing a little research, both sides have great points but it both sides are unfair in pointing fingers – no matter how tactful or polite you try to make it – almost everyone has insulted the other side in some way.
We have to reach a compromise; give an inch, get an inch. Think of it like the U.N.: all countries have to recognize a prospective country as it being it’s own sovereign state before it can become a country (which is why Taiwan isn’t a country, china doesn’t recognize it as one). If both parties don’t agree, then what’s the point? Let’s not take the “T” out of “LGBT” — or “LGBTQ” as some prefer — let’s reach a compromise, and band together to gain rights. Strength in numbers! Right?
This is SO a “none-of-anyone’s-business” topic.
Some of you guys might want to brush up on the fact that genitalia does not dictate gender.
Considering some of the nasty attitudes thrown toward “fem” men (that quite obviously have penises and are comfortable with it) might be a good example of what i’m talking about.
I knew I shouldn’t have clicked through to this.
What do you small-minded idiots think that the T in LGBT stands for?
It’s no wonder that the HRC is throwing the trans* community under the bus, when the rest of us can’t even give them the dignity of accepting their lives.
If you support the trans* community as some of you say you do, you accept their chosen identity as well. If you can’t, you need to stop telling the lies that you accept them for who they are.
Full stop. End of discussion. No, no; that wasn’t a question.
Do trans men with vaginas get penetrated? Just a question.
Are they masculine? Cool. That’s all I care about. Are they tucking me with their toys? Awesome! It’s not like a guy hasn’t used a toy on me before. I’m gay, and I’m FTM friendly. It’s still gay sex, two men, same gender, having sex.
Removing the t is the definition of transphobia you cunt.
And being under the same banner isn’t confusing. We’re all queer. Stop being so fucking ignorant.
OK Just because a man likes masculine women does not make him gay. And strapping a dildo on a woman does not make her a man anymore than gluing a horn on a horses head makes it a unicorn. I personally do not want to have sex with a woman even if she shows up dressed as a man. I also do not want to have sex with a man dressed as a woman. I like men. he don’t have to be extremely masculine but I want a man who is glad he is a man.
I mostly agree. If they are born with a penis they are a boy if it is vagina it is a girl. There are hermaphrodites but that’s a whole other discussion for another time.
Physically if they still got a pelvis they are a boy if they still got a vagina they are a girl. Having you tits cut off or breast implants put in will not change that. Girl taking “T” take on make features and attributes but these are cosmetic some permanent others requires continual use of “T” to maintain.
I truly believe that psychologically they are male or female and that can be independent of their body. But what it comes to is you are a man trapped in a women’s body or a female trapped in man’s body. Just because you have a little surgery and say I’m a man you do magically grow a penis and make it so. I support your right to take on the gender you want but you were born a certain way and no matter what you do that’s life long.
I find this a very interesting topic. I think it is more about the out appearance than it is the tool. As a gay man, I find that some men arouse my sexual interest, not all. A man dressed in women clothing, even though he has the tool I absolutely do not find sexually appealing. It does not matter if he says he is gay, transgender or otherwise, once you have the woman’s outfit on my interest is gone. Strangely, I find women who outfit themselves like men attractive, so if a women transitioning to a man and still has a vagina, yet has the outside appearance of a man could be attractive to me.
I guess I am just attracted to men….. even if they don’t carry the same tool box.
Why is this even important to you? Just live your own life and stop worrying about what other people identify as or choose to call themselves. I get that you don’t like vaginas, so just leave it at that and move on.
Every thinks they know what they want.. but I feel when you truly do(if you do meet the”one”).. it’s never whom you’d expect it to be. Penis or not Lou is hot.. and is sexually attractive!
Personally, I couldn’t ever really see myself having sex with a trans-man, i have said several times that I though Buck Angel was quite good looking from the waist up. I’m not just all about the cock, but I am a total package type of guy(no pun intended) and that’s just part of the deal for me, and while I do find myself versatile, there is a reason that I’m not really into dildos, I prefer the real thing.
With that being said, I have no problem with anybody in the trans community (in a general sense). The only time I take issue with people who are trans is when they hide this fact from people that they are romantically involved with. I understand the fear of rejection and it being a bigger likelihood, but just like HIV can be a threat to someone’s well being, so can having a sexual relationship with someone who is trans and not being told until later. It can mentally damage someone’s psyche, and cause trauma, even if those scars aren’t physical.
I do see their fight and struggle to be inline with the gay bisexual and lesbian community. I even understand how most of your struggles can be even more difficult than ours. Being a gay man I have been asked if I want to be a woman, I have to respond “No! I like my own dick so much that I like yours. I’ve never wanted to be a woman, I like being a man.”, but I can only imagine what it’s like feeling/knowing you were made wrong. While I can not empathize with your plight, I can sympathize with it and I think society puts way to much emphasis on labels and to little emphasis on respecting people who have a different view point from your own and who is doing nothing that infringes on your own right.
If the trans in the original article was ridiculing gay men for not wanting to have sex with him, he needs to realize he is looking for a BISEXUAL man, not a gay man, and also realize that he doesn’t like being ridiculed for his sexual preference, and neither does anyone else. If it was the gay man ridiculing the trans man in the original article, you need to realize that he has the right to call himself anything he wants, it may not be truthful in most people’s definition, but until this infringes upon your own civil liberties, you have no basis to complain.
Thank goodness for Noel. The writer has it all wrong and Noel could have responded with anger but HE didn’t. Good for you dude.
I am finding this conversation mostly disheartening and a strong indicator of why I often find the gay community one I don’t want to be a part of even though I am a cis*gendered gay man. The Trans community is a strong vibrant part of the LGBT community and they are too often attacked and ridiculed by their own supposed “allies”. Same goes for bisexuals often. Gay men in my experience are some of the most close minded and judgemental people I have me. I support all the wonderful trans gay men I’ve met. I often haven’t wanted to have sex with then but I don’t want to have sex with many different people because they aren’t my type. I DO think they deserve the respect of accepting their identity as valid and human.
i agree 100%. if you are a gay man you want to be with a man-all parts included. i dont like transgendered people at all. do not think they have the right to be included in the gay community.
Not understanding the issue here. My thoughts are simple: People are as they see themselves. I respect them. I see drag queens who still have dicks and I call them “she”. I see drag kings and still call them “he”. Thing here is of choice. If you don’t want to have sex with a dude who has a vagina then don’t. It’s just that simple. But to say one shouldn’t call him/herself what he/she sees him/herself as is, well…silly.
“It seems like this person is calling himself a gay man yet still have women parts. I’m all for people being themselves but I seriously had to defend the fact that I like my men with a penis.” <—this is irrelevant
"He calls himself a gay man" followed by "I like my men with a penis" is, well…apples and oranges. He's not "your" man. *looks around with confused look*
Do you, bro is all I gotta say.
To others, I find it odd how we cry discrimination due to sexual orientation, paint gay flags on our shoulders and march in protest yet turn around and practice the same discrimination because someone isn't what you consider is or isn't manly.
Pot. I'd like you to meet the kettle. I call both of you black. smh…
Anti-gay? Whatever happened to tolerance and acceptance?? Tempest in a teapot, the writer needs a chill pill the size of a football. It’s petty and shallow to get all bent over your own perceptions. Each to his own, que no?
Just because you take hormones and have body parts removed…doesn’t make you a man…or a woman….sorry
DEFINITELY GET RID OF THE “T”
I think the topic sounded to me was in reference to help winning the title of Mr Gay Philadelphia.
I think that there should be stipulations. If a male has a vagina he should not be considered Mr Gay anything. He should be considered a Miss. To be Mr Gay the rules should be that you have all of your male organs. After all that is what a gay male is. As some of the others. I would consider having sex with a guy with a vagina. Possibly would feel adventurous.
I think all of us should not be passing judgment on this person. We don’t know all of the details of his life so I its hard to comment about what we don’t know the exact facts about. In my opinion this person might feel that she was born in the wrong body and is really a male. Lets just embrace this person. The contest rules must have found that he qualified as a male or he would have been dismissed from the competition. Lets not create any more negative backlash on this poor soul. I’m sure we all have our daily internal struggles being gay. We should all support each other in this community. The main point is that we all need each other.
I really enjoyed every ones opinion on this topic and story.
I am not trans and I think the opinion expressed by the writer does show shallow mindedness. Just because you dont like the guy with vagina does not mean he cant be where he is, your personal preference is only yours, and should not influence the mass. As soon as it does, your spreading your bigotry.Its like saying I dont like black people but I support the democratic party, therefore black people needs to be taken out from the democratic party and Obama needs to be thrown out. Thats exactly the sentiment expressed by the writer and its shallow and does not promote diversification.
Are we at all surprised that so many members of “The Community” are the most hateful and intolerant folks on the planet with strict rules and requirements for personal looks, behavior and self-expression?
I find most of this discussion to be very offensive and beyond ignorant. A good buddy of mine lost his penis (along with his legs) in Iraq – does this mean he’s no longer a man? Who are any of you to judge this?
Totally agree with the author. Those who disagree are the same people who are confusing people in and outside of the gay community. Why bash the writer and say he is not open minded enough? I’m sure he must have been to be living a gay lifestyle in the first place. I strongly believe a Gay man should not be having sex with a male who has made full transition to female. Both you and that person has now entered a delusional relationship/phase. You spend so much money and time trying to convince the world you are a female and attracted to men. Then why when u receive your vagina you are going to be having sex with gay men or other women for that matter? I just don’t get it. Female who looks totally male but still has a vagina cannot be gay unless she is sleeping with a Female. To me this is like role playing. These are all fantasy stuff. Don’t be quick to pin the gay tag on someone because they are “Open minded”
Okay this post really got my attention… And there is a lot of talk about people being closed minded, even after the person previously said he is not close minded… that he just was trying to make a point that a man is not a man unless he has the parts of a man. That being said I just want to break it down… A “gay man” is a man how likes the same sex. That being said he has the appearance of a man. (that includes his penis) Also reading the posts I see that someone made a very good point… Trans man said that he is a gay male… Then in theory anyone and everyone can say they are a gay male, but can be a female dressed as a male and vice versa. That’s why I also agree with some of the people on here when they say Trans is it’s own category and should be labeled as such. Someone who is Trans can’t be gay, and last I remember it’s LGBT. T for Trans because it is it’s own category. And like the author of the post said, I am not closed minded. There are gay men and Trans men, they both have assured their life styles. Both are apart of the gay community, but I can’t agree that are the same. TRANS & GAY are not the same. (Simple)
This is stupid. You who you are. You love me not or you love me so. This guy is hot and I don’t care if he has a penis or a vagina. I think this is labeling someone for bullshit. We are all gay and can’t we all just support it? Guess I have to sit in the back of the bus because I’m deaf? I lost my hearing and I wearing my hearing aids. Well they say I can’t “say” I’m deaf because I was “hearing”. So why not? They don’t know what it feels like to be a woman to a man. They don’t know what it’s like to be hearing to deaf. So yes he’s a man and I’m deaf. So let’s get on with the show and let’s get cracking.
All – thanks for all the great comments. great to see you all have an opinion. the whole reason for the post was not to say trans men are not valid or having sex with them is gross it’s to say I shouldn’t have to defend my choice for having sex with me who have penises. a lot of commenters are living in this fantasy land that they could be with a person with avagina in a ltr. really? let’s get serious. if you aren’t actively seeking a vagina now chances are you won’t when given the option. to the others who mention gender is not genitalia. this has nothing to do with the post. it has to with guys who like guys with dicks.
So, I feel I need to explain a few things a little better here.
For those who don’t know, the DSM used to contain gradients or degrees on a spectrum of gender, much like the Kinsey scale for sexuality. This spectrum was used to identify degrees of gender dysphoria, or the sense of dissonance one felt between the physical sex and gender identity. Some would experience alleviation of that dissonance with simple modifications to style of dress, while at the other end of the spectrum, full surgical modification was required.
While what we are now seeing is an uptick in trans visibility, it is because more of the lower levels have become recognized as valid, as they well should be. Before, only those seeking surgical solutions were recognized as truly trans. This is progress, and increased visibility and awareness is not just needed, it is deserved.
Nobody is denying that trans individuals have valid concerns and a right to be upset. The topic at hand is, how do we as a community react to those individuals that identify as trans that do not desire surgical confirmation? Do we call them by their assigned sex? No. That would be cruel, insensitive and demeaning. Do we respect their right to self-identify? absolutely.
I am sorry to say this, but there is a divide about the goals of the sexual AMD gender li operation movements. I for one don’t have a personal vested interest in what proceedures insurance companies are required to cover, the ability to change gender on my driver’s liscence or walk into the bathroom of my choosing. All valid, but not shared by the KGB community. Just as it’s really not important to the T for same sex marriage or adoption. (if your documentation reflects your self identification, that is.)
Yes, the LGB and T have gathered under the same umbrella since before stonewall. Because back then, pariahs either stuck together, or became very lonely. Trans has never been exactly the same as gay. But it has been gay by proxy, since we are more similar in many ways than heteronormative culture. We were and still are a safe port in a storm.
Not every trans person is gay, and not every gay person is trans. In fact, a fair portion aren’t. While our roads may meet at the villiage square, they do not lead to the same destination. Your fight is not my fight. To sy it is would be an insult to you. My fight is not your fight. To say it is is an insult to me.
As an aside, some of the responses HAVE been pretty transphobic. It doesn’t matter what sex you are born with, you are male if you feel I’m your bones that you are male, and nobody has the right to take that away. However, if you identify as such and retain a vagina, you do not get to bully me into compromising my sexual orientation, MY identity, because I do not wish to sexually interact with said vagina . I will respect your identity, I will avoid hurtful language to the best of my knowledge, I will make an effort to stay educated on issues facing the trans community, I will use the appropriate pronouns, I will go out of my way to consider you ‘one of the guys.’ But, sorry, I won’t sleep with you. I wouldn’t sleep with a cisgender male that had a penectomy either.
as a bi man this is very interesting I love cock and pussy, when i’m with a guy I want a cock when with a women I want a pussy.both on the same person i’d have to meet them and see how it went deff not against it….. Dean
Apologies for the mass amount of errors. I’m on a loaner phone and am not used to fighting against auto correct to make a point.
I agree with the writer 100%!!! If I wanted to fuck a man with a pussy I might as well go on n fuck one of my female friends but I can’t/ will not because I’m GAY! I like dick and REAL men. Not men with mixed parts. Just my opinion….
It disappoints me to see what some of these people are saying, especially considering that, what I imagine, many of you are gay. There is a difference between sex and gender. Sex is what you have when you are born, gender is what your mind says you are. If this person has a vagina, but in their mind, they are a man, then who the hell are we to judge? We whine and carry on about others judging gay people, and unfairly scrutinising us over our sexuality, but then a gay man, who was born with a vagina, pops up, and the gay community goes on an outrage, like all gay men and woman should fit a mold or something like that. Also, with some of the nasty stuff guys are saying on this post, this is a trans guy, who likes men. Now, can you imagine how much trouble he is probably having finding someone. Gay men don’t like vagina, so he is out of luck there. Straight guys don’t like guys, so he is likely out of luck there too. I doubt he is having much better luck with bisexual guys too, so that doesn’t leave him with much. I think it is disgusting that so many people on here are defining a man by just having a penis. How ignorant can you get.
Isn’t the whole point of a male being transgender to *become* a woman?
I’m amazed at the amount of transphobia in the gay community. Amazed, but I suppose never surprised. So sad. I also notice how many of the responses address what the responder is attracted to – as if her validity as a trans woman teetered on the acceptance or rejection of her physical attributes by a bunch of nameless, faceless internet trolls. Hilarious.
Honestly a touchy subject, I would consider myself a gay man, most Ive ever done with a woman is kiss. I for one find that person pictured above to be fairly attractive, even knowing that man has a vag. If they self-identify as a man, and plan on getting future operations, I might be a little more inclined to date or see someone with those qualities. Im not really a top, but hell could be fun to explore, especially something other than a butthole for a while. And i mean there are strap ons too.
So Id say I may be a little more “open minded” as you put it. If its an attractive self-identifying man, I would be open to the idea.
Recently Indiana had same sex marriage for a couple days before it was stayed by the Federal district court. On our local Pride site was a young man that couldn’t afford to get married to his lover. I offered to pay the fee’s for them so they could get married. Before he would except he felt he had to tell me he was a pre-op Transgender man that was marrying a woman. I told him that that didn’t matter to me at all, and if they needed the help the offer was still on the table. I later found out his gay brother wouldn’t come to the wedding because he didn’t identify as a Lesbian, and that his brothers feelings where echoed in the local gay community, and that is why he felt he needed to tell me about being trans before excepting my help! I have to say that this saddened me! Not all that long ago we weren’t excepted because we are gay, and now we don’t except others because they are trans. I realize this is different than having sex with some one, but it seems to me it may run a bit deeper.
The part of the man I love is all in front of him.
Chest, Penis, Balls.
If I picked up a guy got him home and he had no penis.
I would ask them to leave.
Nope, guess I am not Politically correct.
Oh well. I value my standards and opinions.
At least I have the balls to say so.
By my reckoning a gay man with a vagina is a women, or am I just confused? A gay male generally wants a penis (just saying) Please dont beat me I am actually considered a national subject matter expert on these topics I am supportive of you gender dysphoria, and by altering your selves you can live the way your internal software says you should-I get it, I have helped Many Many folks get the transitioning help they need and I am sorry my trans friends this one you loose on- gay=homosexual=sex with same biologic gender–Male to female who wants sex with female is still a male–this test holds true to those F to M who then want to have sex with a female women with women equal lesbian—I am very sensitive to the issues of gender roles vs biologic assignment vs…but please keep it simple a female to male who wants sex with males-PLEEEZE Mary go back to the drawing board and while I am at it…Trans folks dont get pissy when a gay males or Lesbian females say NO if we wanted vagina or fake parts we would have married a female or a male. Sorry.
The author is correct on what he writes. And dudes with vaginas are not 100% male. No matter what anyone says. Or feels and thinks. Didn’t Michael Jackson bleach his skin to appear white? But he was still a black male. Like a lot of people have said it boils down to biology. If you’re not born with it, then it’s not fully real. Injections, shots, pills, meds, whatever it takes. I wanna rock out with our cocks out. Not hang out with your clam, well. Still there. You are born what you are. Not by the pills you take. Granted it fills and helps that void. But that’s something I’ll never know.
I am saddened by all the uneducated and hateful posts on this topic. Now I am beginning to see why Trans activists and the Trans community are so up in arms. Some of you sound no worse than the voices who spoke against us for generations, and we’re talking about a portion of our very own community.
Sad…….
Just another example of a group of people who want mainstream america to accept them and be respectful of their differences but blatantly ostracise many differebent groups within their own community. Yes, you are allowed to have your opinions and preference…but you might want to remember how you feel when people speak about you in the same way the author chose to express himself. You can surely express your likes and dislikes without coming off as an out of touch, hypocritical douche. Actually many of you are so adamant about a dick making you a man…..but you sound like a bunch of pussies.
Drops The Mic on Floor heading for the door.
Annoyed I am sorry your buddy lost so much in Iraq. But he has nothing to do with a cunt trying to pass herself off as a man or a man passing himself off as a woman. Its all about women exploiting they gay homosexual community or getting a free pass. Your buddy sacrificed so much for his country and I hope through surgery he will one day walk and be able to perform as he once did but the mental scars of war will never go away. I spent 4 years of continuous service in combat between Iraq and Afghanistan. I hope he rebounds and his spirits are high with the love from his family and friends.
To me the question seems to be should transgender people and textbook case homosexuals be lumped into one category. Well, I’m not sure. The gay rights movement is primarily about a group of people that have a different sexual orientation from the norm. The transgender community seems to be more about gender identity, not the right to love someone of the same gender but the right to choose the gender they want to be for themselves which for most gay people, isn’t something they can’t relate to. I like men. I always have but I also like being a man and have always felt like one. Sexual orientation is something you’re born with. Not feeling like you’re the wrong gender is probably also something your born with. But is the gay rights movement about discrimination against gay people or about discrimination against anyone who is discriminated against for any reason? Transgender folks are discriminated for choices they make in their adult lives ie. to dressing like the opposite sex, taking the hormones, have the surgery etc. Being gay is a part of nature, changing your actual gender is not so much so in my opinion. So unlike gays, they are discriminated against for who they CHOOSE to be, not what they were born as. It begs the question, if there were a medical cure for homosexuality would the gay rights movement have come as far as it has. Why would we fight discrimination if there were another option to keep us from being discriminated against? Don’t like being discriminated against because your gay? Well just take this magic pill and you won’t have to worry about it. Being gay isn’t a choice but I guess you could say leading a gay life is because living life in the closet is because we do have the choice to stay in the closet. Having transgender feelings isn’t a choice either but choosing to lead a transgender life is, with the alternative being to remain the gender you were born with which would be the equivalent of staying in the closet, not being who you are inside and conforming to the norm to avoid being discriminated against. So in that sense I understand why there is a T in LGBT, because we’re both fighting to be who we are on the inside. The difference being gay people don’t have to change their outside to be who they are on the inside. For trans people its primarily about changing the outside to match the inside. I try not to judge because I’ve never had their kind of inner conflict and realize it must be Hell even though it isn’t something I can’t really relate to. So even though I think being gay and being trans are completely different from each other, we’re both fighting to be what we are on the inside. Trans just have a tougher time of it because they have to fight biology as well as society. So if the gay rights movement is only about eliminating discrimination against gays then the T shouldn’t be in LGBT. If its about eliminating discrimination against anyone for being born the way they are then I’m not sure considering trans folks can’t help who they are inside but choose to change the outside. If the gay rights movement is about eliminating discrimination against anyone for reasons they have no power over then there are probably a few more groups that should be included under the LGBT like people with handicaps or ethnic groups as well as the rights of women to be treated as equally as men or US citizens versus non. Maybe the trans culture should be a movement unto itself. Maybe lumping us into one group has hurt the gay rights movement or maybe by joining forces we’ve made more progress than we would alone.
Dick and balls required to satisfy 100% of the requirements.
I commend you for speaking your mind as I strongly believe in the same.
This is incompletely offensive. Someone is what they think they are and display themselves to be. You obviously want to be perceived as intelligent since you’re a blogger. Which is cute. Because you’re not. This IS transphobia. Even if you’re trying to say you’re respecting trans men and women, you are not. You are degrading their status completely. Degrading their existence. Appropriating something they struggle against daily. Literally fighting for the right to use a fucking bathroom where they feel comfortable. Homosexuals are fighting for the right to be married in the same sense. People see our unions as being incomplete or insufficient because we don’t have the right genitalia. Sound familiar? It’s the same bull shit you’re preaching right now. Someone’s genitalia does not define who they are. A man with a smaller penis is less than of a man than one with a larger? That’s what you’re saying at its core. Because genitalia completely controls someone’s stance within the gender binary. Please, open your fucking skull to life and realize what it is to be someone who ISN’T cis-gendered. Then, come to me with your knowledge on the subject.
Ok forgive my ignorance here but…..we’re talking about an ‘actual’ woman crossdressing as a man and calling herself a gay man? wouldn’t that (technically) just be a very tomboy heterosexual woman?
I can understand the desire to change gender, a lot of people dislike their bodies more than others, but I don’t think as long as ‘he’ has a vagina to call himself ‘gay’ since he’d be forcing the guys who sleep with him into HETEROSEXUAL intercourse.
Now as for the whole transgender vs gay vs straight fight….that’s a HIGHLY controversial topic that normally turns into flaming wars even among gay people alone (as we can already see in some of these comments) so I’ll stay away from it.
What I don’t understand is why guy men can’t see the bigger picture. We are ALL queer people. Society has thrown us all away! Regardless our orientation or gender indentity, the stupid ignorant bigots of this world will always view as ALL as the same… They may have gone through slightly different struggles but they are our “own”. Our extended family.
When my ex cheated me, and kicked me out out on the street, there were no gay men who took care of me. It was trans people who cared for me, and asked for nothing more than for me to focus on getting back on my feet. Like I said before, gay men a years behind our other queer counter parts. It’s time for us to step our game up and learn have open arms to all queers alike.
Tons of unabashed transphobia here. It’s one thing to politely decline sex with someone because of a characteristic that’s not attractive (because we’re all assholes), it’s quite another to write a blog post because you want to validate you narrow view of society. You want to validate it because you thought it was canonical, and then it got shattered.
If you are not smart enough to think of a tactful reason to decline sex with a trans-man, then you’re probably not smart enough to rely solely on your own model of the world when making a blog post.
Oh please get over your ridiculous selves!
I get laid on this site a lot. More action than I can keep up with – daily. With men who are unquestionably gay. and I’m a transguy. that’s right, no conventional penis and a vagina. I get fucked in all kinds of ways (more than a few times of double penetration using all holes available) and I have relationships with men who experience me as a man. I’ve lived in this world as a gay man for 20 years, sucking cock, falling in love, building relationships & community, and advocating for our sexual freedom. Your words simply can’t take away the reality of that lived experience. Your surprisingly limited world doesn’t change the vast experience of mine.
It seems worth considering that gay men are often not seen as “real men” in this culture. YOU may see yourself as a man but hetero-normative culture does not. So what does it mean when the dominate culture judges your manhood to be less-than? Does their judgement make it true?
This collection of pole-smokers and pillow-bitters should certainly see that men like all kinds of sex in fun and creative ways. and we all have preferences that can be expressed without demeaning others. I personally love a furry ass and legs, long rimming sessions, morning wood, and getting well-pounded by a man who tastes of salt and sweat. Just my preference and if you don’t fit that, it says more about my limited sexual appetites than about your worthiness.
Good hunting and good health, gentlemen!
What should be uniting ALL of together as one force is the fact that we are ALL discriminated against by the small-minded people that view us all as in the (tired) God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve bullshit.
Human sexuality is broad and fluid; accept that FACT.
Gay men that are hung up (no pun intended) on genitals aren’t really much more open-minded than our enemies.
Y’all ain’t sounding too smart.
So sorry, But the whole point of being gay Men is that we aren’t interested in vaginas. Sure, there have been some very insensitive Responses here, But you’re on a blog attached to a website that caters sex to gay Men. Seriously, is anybody surprised that penises are Kinda important here?
So sorry, But if you identify as trans and find yourself with a vagina, how exactly are you a gay male? Male I can understand. But gay? No.
In matters of SEXUAL ORIENTATION, yes, genitalia do matter. Sorry bout it..
Frankly, I’m getting tires of transrage lashing out at the “cissies”(that os what you call us, isn’t It? When you think nobody’s listening.) Just because we don’t cowtow. So sorry, But you don’t get to use your gender identity as a weapon to bully me into liking pussy. If you’re a guy, cool. Go be a guy. But don’t wag your finger at me because a sexual minority (that exists BECAUSE of our genital preferences) doesn’t want to get sweaty with you because you don’t fit the Bill.
Wanna be a dude? Learn to accept that when you are rejected, ir is not because of your failings, it is because you are not compatable. It os not a judgment of you as a person, But the truth is, I don’t want you to fuck me with your personality.
Its all in the chromosome. So if you are female and trans to a male, you still have the XY chromosome, no matter how you identify.
I’m not going to have sex with a man with a vagina.
A man with a vagina…hmmm. Maybe this might sound ignorant but uh, isn’t that a contradiction in terms?
When did gay men become so entitled? I am disgusted by this unhealthy and divisive post. I am disgusted by 80% of the responses, mostly because those that agree with the author make very inane remarks. Unfortunately, I do agree that biology determines the sex, but that doesn’t mean that we should dismiss them. Sex is a small portion–yes, this is important to some; however, gender is everything else that characterizes and embodies the person. We are talking about identity. I would identify a transgender man as a man, even if he isn’t fully transitioned. I think it’s denigrating to strip someone of his or her simple right to be acknowledged and referred to as who they are as a person. I believe we as gay men should understand the importance of identity. Why is it so hard to disregard biology and allow a transgender man to be called a man? Why are we, the community that is still in many ways disenfranchised, being selective about a person’s fundamental right to be? And whoever said that the transgender community should be excluded from LGBT–fuck you. We all have the same goals. We all strive for equality. After all, the gay rights movement was never about sexual orientation.
I am late to the ball game on this one but I came across this and I had to say something.
1.) the only definition we have of what makes a man a man is that he has a penis… So this argument means that the trans-man doesn’t count.
2.) If the above is your line of logic then how can you go around asking gay men how masculine they are? Does it matter they have a penis… So thus you should be open to dating or having sex with them.
3.) If you continue the logic it does make things difficult for all men within our community.
The issue isn’t a trans man that identifies with being gay. I have no issue with that at all. He looks like a man to me and he probably acts like one as well… All of these traits for being a man are moot and when it comes down to it you will eventually ask how fem a guy is which is going against you logic of men being men with dicks. So instead of hating on the trans man embrace them as you would another member of our :”community”. The T should stay exactly where it is… They need to be alone because of your ignorance??
I have been approached by trans men and I treat the situation as i would any other. I am not going to limit myself in a world that is already bound to limit me to being this or that. You may all continue to live in your world of genitalia but I prefer to live in a world where the person is more important that what they do or do not have between his or her legs.