Gay Stuff : The Gay State of Things
Your average gay person might know the name “Stonewall” but they have no idea where to find it in history or where to find it in real life. The New York City based bar was the catalyst for what we recognize as the beginning of the Gay Civil Rights Movement, a “movement” that has spanned nearly 50 years. With so many states in America changing their positions on gay marriage and other important issues, one has to wonder what we will do once we “have it”; that is…what do gay people do once the fight is over?
Our mental state is often a source of amusement and horror to me. The way that gay men treat one another can be kind, compassionate and benevolent but more often than not we do things in hopes of getting something in return and therefore even our kindness can easily turn to vicious, combative behaviour. I understand; the worlds we live in have not always been kind to us and the gays we’ve associated ourselves with have not always been loyal friends. It seems to me that the more gay people I meet the more I wonder, “who raised these people? What happened to basic manners of society?” I wonder that our own coined terms don’t match our behaviours. I’ve met some very rude, crass, self-serving men who insist that they are “classy”. I wonder where our mentors are. I wonder where the older men who have walked down this road and paved the way for us are.
And then I remember…50 years of fighting has been…50 years of fighting. We haven’t really built up a system for ourselves wherein we have mentors and people with wisdom to share anything with us, lest we go astray. The men who are older are just coming into a world where they themselves can be gay and so they are in the beginnings of this journey just like any 18 year old is. It’s a frightening thing to suddenly realize that those who could mentor us need mentors themselves! This gay journey of sexuality is powerful because it’s shared by so many people, but it’s wild and destructive because there have been very few people who have stepped forward and said “This is unacceptable behaviour for gay men if you want these particular things.” We pride ourselves on looking beautiful and getting rich as though those things are going to make all the emotions we’ve been feeling for the last 50 years just go away. We neglect eternal ideals of work ethic, social etiquette, integrity and loyalty amongst ourselves. In many ways we are barbaric toward one another; we want what we want and who are you to tell me what I should and should not do?
But I hesitate to think that all the men and women who began this fight envisioned that attitude as the end game. I believe they wanted a world that enabled gay men to enjoy their youth, make friends, have lovers, fall in an out of romances, find someone they love, build a career, get educated and feel genuinely fulfilled throughout their lifetime…just as anyone in this society has the right to pursue without being ridiculed for it. Instead, we have to walk on eggshells so we don’t offend the married guy who is cheating on his wife with half the gay guys in the city, the “monogamous” couple who share their bed with whoever they take home from the club that night, the men with a list of preferences so long it’s a wonder they talk to anyone besides themselves and the laundry list of young gay men who don’t bother looking for a job because “some Daddy is going to pay for anything I want…I mean just look at me”.
Believe me, everyone walks through these different stages of life. I was pretty arrogant when I was younger, but I thought I was one of the kindest people I knew. I fumbled my way through my sexuality making enormous mistakes that I thought everyone experienced. In some ways, I didn’t really think I’d “arrived” as a gay man UNTIL I made those mistakes. No one really sat me down and explained anything to me – I just had to figure it all out by myself. Even the people who had lived a lot longer than I had seemed more intent on blending into society instead of just telling me how to be…you know, me. The parameters of my gay life were always confined in “what party are we going to tonight?” and “who am I sleeping with?” and “what party are we going to tonight?” – it almost blew my mind the first time someone said “hey the symphony is playing a free concert for July 4th…we should go!” because I suddenly realized that I was only doing about four things that I believed was “gay life”.
As we continue to see America change and embrace us, we aren’t going to have the luxury of blaming everything on homophobia or “it’s because I’m gay” anymore. If you’re a bitch, then you’r a bitch. If you treat your server like shit and that server gets fed up with you, it’s not because you’re gay it’s because you’re an asshole. And I believe we run this risk of getting stuck in “the fight” long after the fight is over. After all, if all you’ve known your whole life is fighting and fighting has shaped you, then it takes a strong mind and a brave heart to ride the wave of change as it comes upon us. (innuendos intended). Many of us will need to stand up and provide wisdom for how to live this equal life that we’ve fought so hard for.
I have a lot of hope for this upcoming generation, though I can see why many gay guys my age are disillusioned with the gay generation we are in, the one in front of us AND the one coming after us. With our obsession with being 18 our whole life, we are ill prepared to grow in grace, wisdom, beauty and strength but this is what we must do. As a very ancient character from one of my favourite book series said, “In my time novices jumped when an Aes Sedai said jump…and as I am still alive it is still my time!”
MakeMeABird on A4A
I agree with so much of your statement, but I want to address one particular topic. You asked “Where are the older mentors for the younger generation?”
Well, my husband and I approached our local GLBT center when they announced that they were looking for mentors. At that time we were both 50 years old. Both had jobs. Didn’t have a record. Decent guys. We were told flat out that they didn’t want us because “We were white and their troubled youth were latino and black.” My question is “WTF does that have to do with anything?” The gay society is as F**ked up as the straight society. I will now step down from my soapbox.
Actually the fight was all about getting the same respect, legal equality and the ability to behave like everyone else in society without being discriminated against. Well…. this is the way society in general behaves – rude, crass, self-serving and those who think they have it all insist that they are “classy” (e.g. Trump, Putin, Paris Hilton, Kim Kardashian, Kanye West, Nicky Minaj….. and you can add yours to the list). The nice folks get run over and told that they are not aggressive enough.
So all that rude, crass and classlessness was already part of the makeup, getting all the legal stuff will not change a thing in this sad mess.
Its the responsibility of gay men and women to mentor and educate young persons as to where and by whose actions the ability to be who you are came from. I set an example my entire life of fighting discrimination. I kicked a lot of ass in school when getting bullied. Last night I was almost in a brawl defending a young gay couple dining after hours. 40 years and counting of kicking ass for education of bigots. Now if this generation can NOT piss it away with petty bullshit and pissy attitudes it should work out.
As far as Stonewall was concerned… They were the outcasts today that fought back the cops from harassment and beatings, and still are the outcasts of today, which were the leather men, drag queens and butch dykes… When the other contingents started standing up for their group… Not much to say any further… We have been parading around like we are united under a label “Gay”, and then some kids felt left out, but still find people they are comfortable with the share the same interests and modifiers. That’s all well and good, but we continue to in-fight, and it’s nothing exclusive here, or different when it was in High School. When people didn’t fight, or appreciate, or realize what others went through, they have this sense of entitlement, no matter what label or spin they put on it. I worked for a once big named fashion designer, in NYC, who now does porn… He said to me once, that he didn’t like drag Queens or leather men, with our above mentioned History, I told him flat out… “If it wasn’t for them, YOU sir, would not be as OUT as you are now.” We promote diversity, and scream and demand acceptance from the outside, but “WE” as sure as shit don’t let it from the inside, why? Because it’s a sham. It has nothing to do about our labels, it’s about being human, or inhumane to each other. No one can fit into those narrow rigid little labels to make YOU feel comfortable with yourself. Most think of how we promote ourselves, is a reflection of all of us, within a group, yes, prejudice on the outside, but each group does in more subtle, sinister ways, thinking they are immune from the same behavior, that it is allowed, acceptable within the “group.” Much like relatives do.
BE the role model and mentor, you want to see, not just carry on, and wait for the good example to show up.
Fascinating discussion! I would say that most people are nice — whatever their sexual orientation. Being gay is not easy for most, and it leaves emotional scars. The whole scene thing is very superficial, but people don’t do that very long before they realize how empty it is. I don’t have answers for you, but I appreciate your starting the discussion.
The generation of which it seems you include yourself, both straight and gay, is one which has lived unaware of the struggles that many endured which provided the opportunity to live your life without having to fight every day.
Vapid self-absorption is a way of life with so many these days, do you believe are gays exempt? Perhaps when you grow up you may realize that life is about what you accomplish, not who you slept with, what you wore, or the party you went to. Ultimately, fun is fun but no one really cares about any of that.
If you don’t like how things are, go out and fix them and show the world what you have to offer.
And for future reference, those who need to discuss class haven’t any.
Hi. You’ve written quite a long dissertation that I could not get through.
Whether you are,straight or gay, manners are important.
Working as a mentor at gay youth center, I try to instill in people that respect is very important thing in life. Being aware f this reminding people can make the whole world a better place.
The WHOLE PIECE was profound for me as an older gay man…THE FIGHT IS NEVER ENDING, but, I hope and pray the gay generation of the future grow in grace, wisdom, beauty and strength…CONGRATS!!!
The simple truth is that the fight will never be over. We must always be prepared to call out our leaders who stand by and let things happen to all people who are considered outside of the main stream. If we treat each other better, then and only then will we have peace on earth. With all the sadness, and senseless killings all over the world, we have a lot to learn, and much to teach others. We shouldn’t sit on our laurels, just because more people like us. We must make sure that laws are put in place to protect our way of life. Who knows what the future will be, and who will be in a position to change our way of life. Staying ahead of the game is better then reacting to injustices inflicted on all of us in this country.
The quest for gay civil rights has been going on for more than 50 years.
The mattachine society formed in 1950. The daughters of bilitis, 1955.
Mae west went to jail in the 1920s for her play The Drag, which made the daring assertion that gay men were female souls trappes in male bodies, so beating up a fairy was like hitting a woman. Hardly progressive thought today, but cutting edge for its time.
Before that, pleas for understanding of inverts and uranians can be found in edwardian and victorian writings.
Great tread and it rings so true even for bisexual men like myself. Happy Holidays…
You ask, ” what do the gay people do once the fight is over?”
I don’t think the fight will ever be over. Do you not see the state of this country today over racism? Has racism ever ended? No. There will always be those that do not agree with our lifestyle. And those same people will try to rally others against us because they will see us as freaks, immoral, unfit, not to be trusted with raising children, etc…. It happens within our own gay society. We discriminate within ourselves. Why are we surprised or do we become upset when others do it to us. I do wish that we as a species would evolve to a greater good. Maybe some day.
Great article/blog post Zemanta. It is well written, articulate, thoughful, thought inducing and as an “aging” gay man appreciated. It was also free of personal bias and childlike tantrums. No “why me” attitudes and superficiality. We can all learn from you. Keep up with the posts full of intregity and wisdom. I for one will keep reading them.
Here is the gay “problem”. Your activists are RAMMING FORCED PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE down the throats of the world. You are not going to gain public acceptance by approaching the world as COMBATANTS (you all keep using the word “fight” and then you wonder why you are hated so much). You act like your on some holy crusade to change the world though the Progressive mindset that if you can just overwhelm everyone with in a sheer tidal wave of onslaught that the world will just knuckle under and give way to your demands for equality and tolerance, WHEN YOU SHOW NONE…You are creating the very hatred that is defeating you.
If you want acceptance the very nature of how gay men put themselves out there has to change. You act like a militant you will be hated just like every other radical asshole out there is hated. You want young people struggling to figure themselves out and NOT be universally hated, try being a resource that advertises being a Passive mentorship instead of being a forceful activist brigade that must be heard in every school curriculum amid great outcry for the apparent harsh contrast of generally UNaccepted practices of sex. The world will NOT accept the deviance no matter how hard you scream TOLERANCE and then show none to anyone who doesn’t want to accept.
What you are creating is a clear cut division not unity. Yo create hostility when you are are wanting acceptance. What are the things young gays need? they need education not only about their feelings but also in the practises, and how to care for their health, how to properly prepare for sex so it doesn’t end up become a traumatic and disgusting event. AS much as you don’t want to hear it, you were better off with homosexualism being a subculture and not a full blown public spectacle.
You could have been a stronger community had you truly banded together in secret where your blatant public insult to the senses would not have also given you foolish courage enough to set upon one another as well in trivial superficial judgements.
What was so important in being mainstream and sharing in the same sufferings as heteosexuals in their codified relationships? Was that equality really worth it as so many of the homo marriages are also suffer a higher rate of complex divorces because the very nature of homosex relations is specifically OPEN relations ships and multiple partners? yes hetero couples cheat too and have the same problems, but the contractual controls of a marriage certificate are NOT worth the problems yo have created. You would have been far wiser to find creative work arounds if the hetero “rights” were something so special, instead this insane drive for “equal rights” has accomplished only the attainment of equal miseries of those codified relationships…
Ask yourself why people really are not “out”. Its because their lives are simpler not having to endure the ADDITIONAL scrutiny and prejudice, while the activists berate them for not being “proud and out” because most of US do not need to parade around a facet of our lives, sticking it in peoples faces and making them resent what they do not need to KNOW about us, just because.
The people that really need to know, are the ones we interact that way with on that level. Attempting to strip people of their privacy by forcing them out under additional scrutiny is just stupid in the extreme and makes people lives harder, not easier to navigate. Gays have forgotten that being discrete is not about not having a great time, it about appropriate behavior in the proper setting and NOT being offensive. Gays have allowed the activists to remove discretion and demand that it is discriminatory to keep out PRIVATE lives, Private…where it belongs and the overt sexual portions of our lives, where it belongs, in the proper place, given the particular fetish (adult bookstore, gay bar gay club. night club or in our homes). Our sex lives have NO PLACE in broad daylight in the streets in garish display. Its offensive when hetero folks forget discretion and act out in front of people who do not expect or wish to see that behavior, but it is also inappropriate to sexual children through lewd displays as well.
Firstly, I’d like to say thank you to the author of this specific blog. I am not sure whether it is Dave or Zemantha, either way the things noted here are important and hopefully those who have never heard of Stonewall will research.
Secondly I’d like to agree with both Osei and Gottahavit. I’d also like to encourage Gottahavit to go back to his local LGBT and make his case for becoming a mentor. Unfortunately, being gay while a common factor is not the only factor. Ethnicity, financial, education, and other factors are just as important. You may not immediately be relatable because it will be assumed that you didn’t and will never have the experiences of a black/latino person when discussing coming out to family friends, etc., or life in general. “You don’t know where I live!”. However, you can be a support system to anyone right? You can listen when they need to talk to someone, you can show compassion and empathize when they think everything and everyone is against them. If we (all people NOT just gay people) could connect on the deepest common factor of being human, we would not have all of the “isms” in the world right?
I live in a small town, I’ve always said, being gay is a small part of me. It’s WHAT I am, not WHO I am. As a person I am so much more than that. So extending that logic, as Osei stated in his post, it is society as a whole that is born believing that they are the only one that matters, that it is funny to disrespect, bully, and destroy others to make themselves feel stronger, smarter, better.
Gays are a small part of the overall population. We have
the same expectations, the same desires, and the same issues as the whole. Being gay does not exclude us from the positive characteristics of being human, it certainly doesn’t protect us from possessing the negative ones.
One last thing before I step down from the pulpit, it is my hope that we can all be good to ourselves and to others. There will always be someone more attractive, smarter, richer, more cultured, more accepted than you. No matter how much you beat someone else down that you believe is beneath you, that will not change. So just be the best you can be, and if there is something you can do to help someone just do it. Not because you’ll get something out of it, rather because everyone deserves a chance to be the best they can be.
Wow! Never thought I would read something like this here tbh. It makes you think a lot. Maybe if I had someone in the black community to talk to about my sexuality I wouldn’t be living a life as a dl bi. I’m the type that likes to talk about my feelings with others to get a better perspective on tinga but I have had no one to talk to about what I’m going through thus I don’t mention anything. I agree that most gays,and bi’s, are living an 18 year olds life. Anon fucks, partying, risky sex… I was not like this in the beginning. I didn’t hookup, I didn’t walk away after sex not caring what the other person thought, I didn’t think it was okay for a gen guy to pay me for my amazing dick, didn’t think I would ever sleep with as many ppl as I have, didn’t think a lot of things that I’ve come to find normal and have adopted from the gay community. Honestly my experience with the gay community are with 2 gay friends and a whole host of partners I’ve had but justified with I’m just having fun just like the first bottom I ever fucked. But maybe with a mentor… Nice blog!
I AGREE 200%, WITH, Osei!!……Especially,……The nice folks get run over and told that they are not aggressive enough……
And that, WILL CONTINUE, IN AMERICA, AND AROUND THE WORLD!!
AND THE, NICE FOLKS, WILL CONTINUE TO BE DISREGARDED, AND IGNORED!!!
I backed out of gay society about 10 years ago. I am now 40 and have been starting to reenter gay lifestyle. I find that most of the younger guys have no clue as to what it was like to be gay in a time when it was not accepted or tolerated. I grew up in a very rural area where it was dangerous to be found gay. I think this environment created my mind set of stay out of site. But now the younger generation can be as they want and that ha created a void in character. Leading to the rude behaviors and lack of respect for older gays. In conclusion I am saddened at the state of gay communitys and how its all about being young and having a perfect body and other things like possessions. We as a group have no substance no past to draw from and as a result a small sad future and no strong community.
I thought that your blog was thoughtful and very well written. It was highly accurate in my experience. I think that we, perhaps lost a lot of the generation before me (my generations mentors) to aids. Also the general lack of support and nurturing from society in general has a-lot to do with it. Great article!
you seem to forget nearly an entire generation of gay men was wiped out in the 80’s-90’s. entire pages of my address book are crossed out. (yes, I am that old to still have a paper address book) that is where your missing mentors are. those of us who survived are often deeply wounded, or sick or both and may not be able to be the healthy happy mentors you think should be out there.
gay life has followed modern culture. celebrity and commerce are more important than conviction and striving to make the world a better place for us all. I’ve watched gay pride parades go from deeply political/activist events to shopping/marketing/infotainment episodes. again, mirroring modern (American)culture.
so where you find fault, look at reality TV, politics, Jerry Springer and modern culture. it is trying to draw us all into the abyss of confrontation, not cooperation, of choosing sides, not finding commonalties.
culture is increasingly polarizing us all – tho we gays may be a little better at it…catty has always been a gay trait.
if you only look for and only see problems, you will always find them. when you look for solutions, then try to try to work for solutions, you may find progress.
I hope your dissatisfaction drives you to strive to find a more positive spin to our seemingly cataclysmic world. best wishes
Three thoughts, the first is yes, this has become a very crass society, with the reality shows that highlight bad behavior by the wealthy. Rose Kennedy once said something to the effect that with great wealth came great responsibility to those with less, and the current wealthy class don’t care about anybody but themselves. Number two is that many of the men that would be mentors were lost in the aids epidemic. I don’t think the loss that the gay community suffered with Aids will ever be fully understood or recognized. The last thought is that it’s alright to be gay, but at least be a man about it. I’m bi, have raised 3 children and am still married to my wife. It has been hard, but I do not allow being bi/gay to be my whole identity. Being married and a parent I have learned to give/put other’s needs before my own, and the gay community needs to understand that there are many needs in the larger community that we are all a part of
as a man who is up there in years and life experience but just now coming to grips with my gay self it’s been VERY TOUGH my 1st long term lover helped a bunch and friends I met through him but lately it seems i’m looking back on the closet door wondering if I did the right thing,the young guys all want money for sex NOT !!!! I don’t mind buying dinner or drinks but I don’t have a money tree in my yard I’ve worked all my life and still do.so a lover should have his own !!! I’ve gotten the nastiest comments and remarks remember guys everything comes back full circle,and some of these young men should look in the mirror before they degrade anybody else .yes I do believe in love because I had it and found it here.so I know it can be found again. when I do I want to be able to take full advantage of all the legal aspects of that love to be able to enjoy our love like any other couple.cant wait to read what others have to say…Dean
I’m grateful for the reminder that those who we might look to as mentors probably suffered a life under the stigma that some still want to instill. I have behaved despicably at times and probably have little room to talk and yet maybe even someone with deep regret has something valuable to contribute. It’s beyond embarrassment but maybe if we, together, talk about what we want for ourselves, each other and the world we won’t be as preoccupied with the negativity. Maybe we can even explain when we are having trouble empathizing in the face of the negativity. A Christian leader said we have “deficits”. I say, we find out what they mean and work together to determine if this is accurate or over-generalized bs, and together help each other deal with reality. I hope the writer of this finds ample conversation with older men and can simultaneously look up to them while having compassion for the wounds this world has inflicted.
1968 – Stonewall. 1978 – Milk. I was a kid in the 1980s: I recall the news reporting the antics of ‘openly gay people’ — It was a carnivalesque environment. On TV, SOAP had a gay character; played by Billy Crystal, he was both stereotypical and seasonally gay, transgender, & bi. Today, what show doesn’t have the sassy gay friend? Mmmmm, say it gurlfriend – Fabulous!
Of the many gays represented in today’s media, how many are empowering? How many dating sites have parred down the romance to the most basest hook-up software? It’s hard enough to be gay, but a role model on top of that? Mainstream America, religion, traditional family values, have never really comprehended the concept of ORIENTATION, and so we have been left to make our individual ways to self discovery, on our own, with few leaders. HIV polarized many, and our community began to grow up. It was very lonely learning to be gay — no supportive friends here, no one to follow, it was a lonely journey. We are as diverse as any other community, perhaps the best we have to offer is our own learning curves. Perhaps a little gentlemanly style and grace is in order?
Be well my Brothers!
I believe most of peoples disrespectful attitudes towards one another is due to todays internet services. People have lost the art of communicating face to face with one another, and there nasty self indulgent ways have carried over in there emails and into there public lives when they do relate to people, weather it be business or personal. Most people want and expect respect, but they forget that respect is earned. Just because someone might have a few more dollars then the next person, don’t make them any better then the rest of us. And just because a person might have money, don’t mean they are any more happier then the rest of us. I believe our news is reflecting my thoughts today of how people are getting along with one another.
“With so many states in America changing their positions on gay marriage and other important issues”
Opinion: Dictators in black robes are forcing “gay marriage” down peoples’ throats. States in which people have voted on the issue (aka self-government) have overwhelmingly rejected “gay marriage.”
“The way that gay men treat one another can be kind, compassionate and benevolent…”
Opinion: Sure, but they seem to be outnumbered by the angry, hateful queens on various sites who personally attack gays in ways their straight friends wouldn’t dream of doing.
What happened to basic manners of society?
Opinion: America is a society that is unraveling. The most civil societies are based on Judeo-Christianity, free-market capitalism, and constitutional, limited government. All three of those are under attack by Maobama and his accomplices. And a lot of gay men are enthusiastically supporting them, rather than doing what’s good for society as a whole.
Thank you all for your insights. When I wrote this article (and thank you Dave for posting it…it’s exciting to show my friends and family) I had thought of the AIDS epidemic but did not realize how devastating the effects were – it was a veritable genocide of a gay generation. I can easily see how anyone who survived that would have a long healing process. I certainly didn’t mean to be insensitive.
But it kind of goes along with my point that we don’t really talk about or educate ourselves about these types of things. We’re like “Stonewall…fuck yeaaaaaah!” and then move along to which Real Housewife is beating up which other Real Housewife this week. It’s a hell of a thing to try to find a balance between being educated about our own history and having fun living life in 2014.
I think we imagine that all gay society just got up one day and went to Stonewall and started the Gay Civil Rights Movement, when in reality a lot of wealthy gay men wanted nothing to do with it and wanted them all to stay quiet and not rock the boat. And it was drag queens and leather men and gay rebels who were fed up with it, so I agree with the comment that we are often the MOST hateful toward the very people (who themselves may not even know that their gay predecessors were the catalyst) who provided the groundwork for where we stand today.
I don’t believe the fight will go on forever. I think mindsets have been changed on a global level before and can be again. There will always be poking fun, and jabbing at people for being gay and the things people just say without thinking…but the ingrained hatred…I think that part can and should eventually fade out. I would rather live in a world where someone made the occasional insensitive joke than just accepting that people will always hate us.
To quote the Bible of all things, “how can you say you love God whom you cannot see when you cannot love your neighbour who is right here with you?”
The one question everyone should really be asking themselves is:
Would I be the same way if my aesthetics were parallel to that of the individual in which stated a comment that seemed to have made you become off kilter?
The general answer is no I wouldn’t, then again that person has never possessed the qualities in question. Laymen terms be this yo, the homeboy was fine as fuck yet the ideology that comes along that gives them the notion to think they have a set of standards and those ones who do not fit the bill I am sorry but I’m on to the next one. Be happy the dude gave you an answer cause most of the time I don’t cause I do not want to seem like the BIG DICK I have. And to be honest your career is a big part of what makes up a person but you decided to make a profit off a part of you in which you totally love(SEX). You made your name off an industry that does make a tidy sum but in the Elite Professional World is not held in any high regard or sophisticated society. you’re sleazy man. And if the dude does hold a titled or high place within the hierarchy he chooses to reside in he doesn’t want it tarnished or tainted. I don’t blame the homie. Being part of the cyber world elite I wouldn’t want to be associated with anyone in this industry other than to eat and beat the dudes ass to submission either.
Get Over It Brah!!!!!
What’s the state of gay society? All the same problems as straight society racially, whoring, backstabbing, etc plus not being taken serious by straight folks, which honestly I can’t blame them. Most of us are a joke, I question why gay marriage is really necessary. #thesehoesaintloyal
There are mentors out there. They just hide in caves. Because 1: the mentors became that way through experience, some of this experience might of been coming up with these ideas and having the gay community at large shun them and the concepts. 2: Maintaining a healthy outlook in an unhealthy environment is difficult. this isolation often is the only way to maintain ones beliefs. and 3: they know that if the question is “where are the role models” nothing will happen, but if you ask “where can I find a role model” eventually you’ll be led to them, just like how the mentors asked for solace and found it.