Health : Serodiscordant Relationship

Im pretty sure if i knew that the person i was with was the one and only i wouldnt give a shit about catching hiv from them but i would have to be with them for a long expanse of time and get really close to them and then there would eventually come a time when i just wanted to be with that person and what ever happens happens.

Sero-discordant relationships are not really something to have an “opinion” about other than your own feelings about whether YOU are willing to be in one. I am negative and not currently open to being in a sero-discordant relationship. That could change. However, for those that are open to it. More power to them! Stay healthy!

Great blog.

My ex-boyfriend found out he was HIV positive the first month of our relationship. I could’ve backed out easily, but I had fallen so hard for him by then I decided to stay. That day is burned in my memory. It was a double-edged sword. On one side, he learned he was positive. On the other, because I decided to stay with him he realized he loved me. We lasted almost a year and had a lot of sex in between. I always wore a condom when topping and he always wore a condom on the uncommon occasion he topped. I didn’t often perform oral on him, but when I did I tried not to swallow his precum, definitely refrained from his cum. I’m still negative to this day and the two of us are best friends now.

I tested HIV+ in 1991, I informed my partner of 6 years, while I volunteered for AIDS, and was aware I had tested neg sometime before we had met in 1985, we was in monogamous relationship, I had to have this virus 6 years before, he immediately turned to ice and wanted to know if I could be gone in 2 weeks or he could, after all, he was not infected and did not want to be infected or even affected, 5 long lonely heartbroken years later, the week before Christmas of 96 I met my current partner, he was neg, so I decided it would never work, then I found out his previous partner had Passed on of AIDS. I thought I would express some interest, we had dinners together at a mutual friends, dinners out, watched TV together over the next couple months:) He showed up at my door on Valentines day of 97, I was so totally unaware that it was even Valentines, I was elated, scared to have sex with anyone again, but he persisted and that was the first night of the rest of our lives together, he never wears a condom when he tops me, never did unless once in while it sounded like fun… LOL after 16 years, he remains neg, the past 9 years I have been undetectable which has helped, I had an extremely hard time with the no condom… But as he said, as long as he has no sores on his cock there is not point of entry… And when he performs oral he avoids my cum and precum… Love does not fear… When it finds you, no matter what condition you are in, it figures out a way, and it stays even when it is not easy, while I may have loved others, none other had loved me till my current partner, we take care of each other, we are each others best friends first, I hope for another wonderful 16 years with my partner:)

I wonder if the age of the two partners might affect their willingness, to a degree, to start such a relationship. Those of us of a certain age (40 and up, for certain) probably have memories of friends lost to painful deaths, and the hopelessness of the early days of AIDS. I know, objectively, that HIV is now considered a manageable long-term illness, and recognize the lessened likelihood of transmission from men who have undetectable levels. But I think I’ll always carry a latent memory of the fear that was instilled early on, no matter how much I try to accept the current “reality” of the situation, and I just recognize that it would be hard for me to get into such a relationship. I wonder if younger men who have always known of HIV as being treatable and manageable would have fewer problems with it.

dick in your pants and ONLY out for a TRUE loving mate that is FAITHFUL, would not have to worry about this stuff!!! STOP being a slut ‘for the moment’

I admire any man that is open about his status. It shows he cares about the people around him.

This is 2013 and the way we perceive HIV disease or those who have it should progress at the same speed as all the very effective treatments. Poz guys and gals should have never been made to feel less than or incapable of being in a relationship with whomever they love. My infectious disease doctor told me they are not worried about folks, like myself, who are in treatment and remain undetectable. Because the potential for us to share the virus with another is almost impossible. It’s folks who are still not getting tested, out of fear, and are putting themselves at risk who cause the greatest concern for health professionals and the CDC. If one is infected by another who is not in treatment, then the virus still replicates at a very high rate in that person’s body for several months and if they are having unprotected sex, they are most at risk for sharing the virus with another. It’s like any other virus, it’s more virulent early after being infected than later on. We need to push for more testing and keeping ourselves aware of what our bodies may have picked up along the way, if we choose not to play safe. Condoms are still very effective in keeping folks from getting infected with HIV or other STD’s, but they have to be worn. And many, today, seem unwilling to practice safe sex. I do not judge, but if that is you, then you should be getting tested on a regular six month basis. And, if you become positive find a great doctor and start drug therapy immediately. The old days of waiting to start therapy have long been over, since the new drugs can keep the virus undetectable and keep folks healthy. Did folks not hear the latest news about the newborn infant whose mother was HIV+ and did not know until after her baby was born. She passed the virus onto her child and her doctors where so aggressive in treating the newborn baby with more than one anti-retroviral drug, that after a year, this baby is no longer HIV+. The first case of documented success in killing the virus completely by drug therapy. This is only going to lead to better treatment for all who are infected and, hopefully, one day put an end to HIV disease. Don’t stay in the dark ages, but keep yourselves educated about the ever changing successes in battling HIV. And get tested on the regular, if you are not practicing condom use all the time, consistently. By all means, do not let relationships be based on who has or has not got a disease, but on love and respect only.

David W. Bradburn

There is nothing unusual about serodiscordant relationship is just another way of living your life by accepting and pleasing your partner with a disease and/or virus. The issue is that most of us are still dreaming in living in that perfectly balance world where everything is freed of viral/disease infections, natural disasters and/or accidents. Well, sorry to burst anyone’s bubble, but it’s not. Even if go and pick the “perfect boyfriend” whose HIV – it will not guaranteed his immune system from catching or receiving any other kinds of diseases, which can cause turmoil’s in my relationship. For example, while being in a relationship with another guy he may catch cancer, mental disorder; get a broken arm, or sex dysfunction. Consequently, most of us want to run from all of this from fear of risking our own physical security. However, death takes its toll, and it will someday catch all of us one way or another.

I’ve been poz for almost 20 years and since discovering my status (i was infected by a partner who lied about his status) and I have several couple friends who live in poz/neg relationships like Terry. I also have known several poz/neg couples who are like not_defective’s relationship (together but not sexual).

At the time I’m posting this, all the couples who live like Terry are still together, and only 1 of the couples like not_defective’s have broken up. (note: the only couple that’s still together are both in their 60’s and they admit that at their age being in a loving but non-sexual relationship is more important than sex.)

Now, i’m not saying that my experience with poz/neg couples is a clear indicator of this unique couples-dynamic, but based on my conversations with these couples, the lack of intimacy (fear of touching/fear of infecting neg partner) were the driving factor in the end of their poz/neg relationship.

Yes, it’s true that as we grow older, most of us find that a balance of affection and sex is more than fulfilling – versus when we were younger and sex was more a motivation than affection.

Poz/neg relatioships where sex is avoided, is often like giving a kid a nickle and sending him into a .25 cent video game arcade. You’re surrounded by games you want to play, but you can only observe. And, for my friends who were in a non-sexual LTR, that’s how they felt. While they did love their partner at the time, the lack of intimacy was like a wound that never healed. It’s part of the human condition to want to express your love and affection to your partner sexually…but fear and stress are the most powerful libido-killers out there.

The truely sad thing in poz/neg LTRs that are non-sexual is that there’s SOOOO much information about safer-sex practices out there. And even more information about creative forms of intimacy (couples massage, tantric, toys, etc.) and, of course, condoms – that i feel few of these couples really exhaust all the help that’s out there to have a sexually fulfilling LTR. Granted, there aren’t alot of mental health couples counselors with experience in working with poz/neg couples, but I think that getting help in dealing with the fears surrounding infecting one’s partner could really be helpful. But, unfortunately, its far to easy to just move on than to work it out.

Now, i’m NOT accusing any of these guys that break up from their poz/neg relationship. I just know that for my partner and i, taking advantage of couples classes, massage classes, fantasy exploration – just to name a few – have done wonders for our sex life.

Now, before i close, i do want to get on a bit of a rant about those who judge poz/neg couples like terry’s. I can’t tell you how many times i’ve heard other couples and single gay men sit in judgement of poz/neg couples who bareback each other. They know the risk. They take what precautions they can (stay healthy, remain undetectable, no swallowing, no shooting inside, etc) and these couples seem to really grow stronger – because they are FORCEd to talk and work on their sex life. They communicate – the KEY DRIVER in all successful LTRs – no matter the hiv status of the couple.

The other ironic thing on this issue is that guys who sit in judgement of poz/neg couples are teh very guys who’ll cruise on this site, CraigsList, MH, Grindr or at the clubs, go home with a guy and play safer sex (use a condom) and the pure fact of the matter is that, according to the CDC, at least 25-30% of all sexually active gay/bi men are poz and don’t know it.

So when a “neg” guy gets all high-and-mighty about poz/neg couples who bareback or poz/neg couples who use condoms and say, “Oh man, i don’t think i could be with a poz partner” – i roll my eyes and say to myself, “Dude, you’ve probably slept with several poz guys in your life and didn’t know it – but it didn’t stop you – because why? YOU DIDn’T KNOW!

I don’t know if this issue will ever go away until there’s a cure for hiv, but until then, i hope that gay men will be a tad bit less judgemental (not all guys who got infected were “bug chasers”).

And, my final wish is that guys would stop using the word “clean” to describe their hiv/std status and what they’re looking for in a trick or boyfriend. Poz folks are not DIRTY. They aren’t marked with a scarlet “+” sign. Poz folks live with a chronic medical condition that, with proper treatment, allows them to live a normal life-span. And, by using the term “clean” in profiles and public discussions, folks do more to HINDER guys from getting tested often – then to help stem the tide of infection – especially among younger gay/bi men and especially younger black men.

I hope more will join me in working to end the use of that term and foster support – not separation in our community.

I would never imagine being in a serodiscordant relationship but 6 years ago my partner of then, 17 years, was diagnosed with HIV that went untreated for several months. At first, your emotions run the full spectrum. You’re relieved to know the cause of the symptoms they have experienced for several months has been identified; you’re in disbelief that what you suspected has been confirmed, and angry that there has been a clear break in trust. Personally speaking, the next following months were emotionally turbulent that was supercharged with a few hospitalizations for a disease that went untreated for several months.

What has been posted I find to be true. Maintain your health through diet, exercise and being informed of your options for treatment. Further, you need to be true to each other despite how difficult, understand that you will be faced with fears that you didn’t know exist, plus exploring what are the options and associated risk as well as what are the limits each of you are willing to be faced to maintain a healthy intimate and sexual relationship. Being in a relationship that avoids intimate contact and sex is very difficult which I can easily identify as being a source of many break ups. If you are committed, you need to learn how to make this work.

As the partner who is negative, exploring what options and associated risk are available to a serodiscordant couple, to be very limited. We are still in an age on preventing and living with HIV but have failed to acknowledge the advancement in treatment and how that might change relationships. Perhaps speaking selfishly, but we need to expand this approach to include more resources that are available for serodiscordant couples that help outline the options, risk as well as work with the couple to explore their fears and how to live with the disease while meeting the intimate and sexual needs of each partner as well as some loss of freedom. There needs to be a source of truth which the couple can turn too and learn if certain practices are more at risk than others. Further, for those who are single and living with HIV, I can only image the heartbreak they face when someone learns of their status and stops the relationship. If we can provide the resources, it demonstrates that despite some risk, living as a serodiscordant couple is possible.

They say that early detection is key then why hasn’t the healthcare changed? Healthcare workers, particularly Primary Care Physicians, once learning of serodiscordant relationship needs to insure the partner who is negative is tested routinely and look for any indicators of the virus when conducting an exam especially the annual physical exam. Provided there is consent, health care providers must be able to work with both couples without any trepidation. Living in an area that prides itself for healthcare advancements, I was surprised to learn providers, including those in Family Medicine, still look at administering care for that one individual as opposed to the couple. When my partner’s PCP, who he has seen for years, never once asked about their partner when the diagnosis of HIV was given, really upset me. My PCP of the same organization hesitated to perform an HIV test unless there were some key indicators and it was only learning of the events, did they proceed. When I obtain a new PCP and spoke of the serodiscordant relationship, I was surprise that it was me who had to outline my expectation for testing and the need to be cognizant of the relationship when providing any exam. We can also expand the need to change in healthcare to those outside of the primary care office. Therapist, medical specialist, nursing and others in the managing the care of patient would benefit in changing their practice by being cognizant of a serodiscordant relationship and understanding how that may impact the delivery of care.

Lastly, we need to change the stigmatism associated with being HIV+ as well as living as +/- couple. I’m annoyed to hear or read those priding themselves on being negative or worse disqualify those that are HIV+ automatically. These remarks only underscore that a status of being positive needs to be hidden but those that should be tested doesn’t because of the public opinion. Today the disease is manageable and does not differ from those living with being epilepsy, MS or other long term illness. If we have the means to educate and reduce the fears, I believe more will be tested as well as help others will be more inclined to disclose their status to help their partner make an informed decision on whether or not they wish to take necessary precautions.

@ EastValleyoral…Thanks man! I’m still relatively new to the whole “lifestyle” and my diagnosis…I really appreciate your feedback! 😉

In a bit of a quandry here. I’ve always been HIV phobic..and yes, like several other has said, I’ve probably slept with HIV+ men who either didn’t know their true status or lied about it. However, I’ve stayed negative for the past 25 years of sexual activity. I recently met a wonderful man who shared with me after a month of non-sexual dating that he was poz. I had strong feelings for him, so despite my phobia, I kept dating him. However, I found him to be very moody and often he would shut himself off from me for several days at a time, which I found very difficult to tolerate. Finally, after no-showing for a date with no communication for almost a week, I felt I could no longer tolerate the uncertainty. I broke it off with him, citing my inability to endure such flucuations in his mood and communication. I truly care for him and now am wondering if I made the right decision. I don’t want to presume that HIV+ = emotionally unstability. I truly don’t believe that to be necessarily true. However, I am not sure I can live with the instability he presents. Any advice?

@Tim, Living in a poz neg relationship for over 16 years, and facing the constant onslaught of stigma and rejection thru the years I can totally understand what happens, Being of extreme strong personality, I had no problem facing the challenges…. My shear determination to live had me go on… Perhaps you were doing things that you were not even aware of that caused his reclusive behavior, perhaps some one else treated him poorly, While I do not know what environment you live in either, some states are extremely intolerant of gays and HIV and anything that is not Middle to Upper class White Christians, he may be facing many things. And while Eastvalleyoral says that these are not side effects of HIV, I wonder how many HIV meds he has taken and how many panic attacks he has had as a result of the meds,how many anxiety attacks, black outs, etc how many bouts of depression he has faced that are medically induced… My advice, is that while you may not be able to be in a relationship with this person, you could talk to him, and be an ongoing positive influence in his life, he may not be stable, he may never have been, but he might be, and he might be rejecting you in the belief that he is protecting you.. It takes an extraordinarily strong individual to live the complexities of HIV of the side effects of 4 drug a day mega cocktail that leaves the individuals in a frenzy of emotions at times… Let alone the stigma, the financials, and everything else that becomes challenging… Generally all behaviors have a root cause… If you are not willing to find out what happened and why he could not face contact that week… then you would certainly not be the one for him anyway… He needs some one strong enough to understand.. not some one so needy that a week without contact is not something that some one that you recently started dating is unforgivable… My relationship often went weeks without contact simply because of both our travels… But lack of contact never dissolved our relationship it just always strengthened it when we was together again… Seek the root cause of the lack of contact without judgement or fear, and then determine if it is something worth pursuing, often inside an HIV infected body, beats a wonderful heart, a good and caring and loving individual, one that has been so beaten by the world that it is just becoming easier and easier for them to just stay in and hide:( Hopefully this helps you to understand…

@NewlyDiagnosed – normal feelings you are having, i would think, given the circumstances. just be the loving person you want to be seen as, and if he welcomes you into his life, great. if he rejects you, does it really matter what the reason is? you would then have to accept that it was never meant to be. don’t doubt what you bring to the table – love me, love my baggage! or not.

Thanks @Jelesuis..(dating dudes is more of a headache than dating females…so many games it seems)